pedigree records

[cddexter]

Just thought I'd put this somewhere it won't get lost:

Forty years ago, there were only about 200+ Dexter owners in the US.  I knew most of them.

It was a commonly held opinion by all that the senior bull in the field was the sire of all calves, regardless of what else was there; end of sentence!

If it wasn't black, it was red.  This explains all the mis-registered duns until the red test was available in the late 80's.

Because most owners were hobbyists, a lot of the paperwork was not considered serious stuff, so if nothing got registered for a year or two, it was okay to guess the parents because for the most part, it didn't really matter.

No one had a clue about dwarfism.  It was just one of those things that came with the breed.  You lived with it and the consequences of bulldog calves.  Early PR stuff even referred to aborted calves but said the milk production wasn't affected (see, just business as usual).

No one selected for any particular traits, except height.  Conformation wasn't a consideration.

If the result was small and chunky/clunky it was a Dexter-type, or a short-leg, and therefore desirable.  If the result was taller it was referred to as a Kerry-type, or long-leg.  These last two designations were considered derogatory. 

Heights varied from 36" to 52", with no consistency because chondro was used to artificially reduce size.  The taller genes still lurked under the surface.

It was not unusual to have more than one breed all running together in the field. If the calf was solid colored, it often got registered as a Dexter, regardless of parentage, especially if it was a heifer and therefore more desirable. I kid you not.

I want to make these points because there is this tendency to slavishly follow the paperwork, and it's a false expectation that what you get is accurate.  Definitely some is 100%, but a lot of the records are nowhere near even 50%.  Don't get caught up in crediting--or discrediting--an animal just based on recorded pedigree.

Cheers, Carol Davidson.

[jamshundred]

CD:  Just thought I'd put this somewhere it won't get lost:

Lost?  I doubt it.  I suspect I can point you to at least a couple other locations where it's been written before

It was a commonly held opinion by all that the senior bull in the field was the sire of all calves, regardless of what else was there; end of sentence!

I don't find that a revelation.  Probably still true today. .. . BUT . . . . . .  .the smaller the herd the truer the belief.  IF . . .. . a herd bull runs with his herd year round. . . . he WILL manage the herd.  .. and it is a rare day indeed an upstart youth or older rival will penetrate (pun intended) his barriers.  A good herd bull manages his herd. . .. .  .AND . .. . . . he does NOT breed his daughters until they are the age nature prefers.

If it wasn't black, it was red. This explains all the mis-registered duns until the red test was available in the late 80's.

BUT . .. . . . . you are forgetting Carol that duns were NOT mis-registered, they were NOT recognized.   ALL Dexters that were non-black were registered as reds.  The color of dun was not approved in the breed until about the turn of the 1970's in England. . .  and even TO THIS DAY. . . .   there is confusion as to whether an animal is "red" or "dun" by many.  It was not until Mrs. Rutherford visited the US, was shown a herd of "red" Dexters and informed the owners their cattle were NOT red, but were dun instead that the color designation "red-dun" appeared in the US records.  By that time, Dan Randall had compiled all the registrations to that time, all the non-black were designated as "red" just as they were in the original herd books, and suddenly there was a calamity of confusion.   Sandi Thomas has been insisting for a few years she had the only red cattle in America. ( line bred offspring of Marnell's Black Magic".

No one had a clue about dwarfism. It was just one of those things that came with the breed. You lived with it and the consequences of bulldog calves. Early PR stuff even referred to aborted calves but said the milk production wasn't affected (see, just business as usual).

I do NOT find this to be an accurate assessment.  In 1949, Mrs. Loder's herd was designated as a herd of "dwarf" cattle.  I have a letter copied to my website where Otto Jensen wrote to Mr. Walker telling him how to breed the short cattle to the taller cattle to prevent the aborted calf issue.  There was ongoing studies of the dwarf cattle by UCD during the sixties, with over 100 articles on Dexter studies in their library by the turn of this century.  It was even recognized and described by Professor Low in the mid 1800's, except without a scientific name or term.  I was recording the bulls from herdbook XXIX (1928) and started thumbing through the birth pages and the percentages of calves reported as "born dead" was really quite small when we know the early breeders favored the dwarf cattle.  Lady Loder, ( Grinstead ) was a breeder of dwarf Dexters.  Her herd report showed 38 cows and of those 38 calves there were nine that were not registered, 7 were bulls, 5 of those marked "sold to market".  2 bulls and 2 heifers were marked "do".  I will copy the birth records below.

No one selected for any particular traits, except height. Conformation wasn't a consideration.

I do not think this is accurate.  I know the Fleharty's selected for udders because Dean Fleharty was DIA, and I saw Shome herd udders in the Dixie herd and there wasn't a single Shome cow without a beautiful udder.  I bought very nice cows from the Windridge herd.  The owner had the means to  travel across the US to select Dexters for her herd, and the Peerless cows I purchased from her were dwarf and the foundation of my favorite bloodlines.  The cattle in the east that descended from the early eastern importers that established Dexters in America had some wonderful cattle.   Marcia Reed was breeding about the time you came into the breed and she did not select for size but had some focus on dairy.  Piehota DID focus on size. .  .. . but the wrong direction!  He liked bigger animals. More than small. . . . .   .   .  I would say ANY fixation in the breed on faulty selection was the COLOR fads which had greenbacks attached.

If the result was small and chunky/clunky it was a Dexter-type, or a short-leg, and therefore desirable. If the result was taller it was referred to as a Kerry-type, or long-leg. These last two designations were considered derogatory.

That is truly the opposite of my experience.  The reason "short-leg" became part of the Dexter vocabulary is because breeders were discouraged from using the problem nomenclature, "dwarf".

Heights varied from 36" to 52", with no consistency because chondro was used to artificially reduce size. The taller genes still lurked under the surface.

There is simply a built in bias in that statement CD.  I have been to Holstein farms where sizes of animals in the herd could differ by 10 inchs.  ( Tall and taller albeit).   I've seen some small Jersey cattle and seen some tall ones.  Animals differ based on variables.  I have been breeding dwarf cattle for a long time.  By far, the percentage of proportionate Dexter cattle come from Dwarf to dwarf OR dwarf to non-dwarf.  There is a very small percentage of dwarf to dwarf breedings where a tall animal is produced, and there is no provable reason for why it happens.  In my immediate family we range from 5'4" to 6'5".  That is a wide genetic variance.  None of us are dwarf

I want to make these points because there is this tendency to slavishly follow the paperwork, and it's a false expectation that what you get is accurate. Definitely some is 100%, but a lot of the records are nowhere near even 50%. Don't get caught up in crediting--or discrediting--an animal just based on recorded pedigree.

You MUST follow the paperwork.  To do otherwise is to permit gossip and innuendo to dominate.   I saw and heard lots of the gossip when I was researching 15 years ago, and some of it . .. . . especially during the spring of 2004 was malicious.  It was during that period I realized how easily one's lifetime of breeding choices could be jeopardized by a malicious foe, and it is the reason I genotyped my entire herd and encouraged others to do so.  I recognized that an individual or an association could quickly wreak havoc on one's efforts rather easily, but having documentation thwarts propaganda effectively.  

I have personally paid to genotype a lot of older Dexters and with years of experience and probably as much knowledge of Dexter genotypes as exists outside of laboratory circles. . . .  .I think the early breeders did an excellent job managing their herds.     Even IF a herd bull got snookered. .. . . .   . . the offspring was more likely a Dexter as not.   The old, " bulls jump fences" is a handy tool for stigma, but they forget to say it is rare to hear any belief they "jumped back over" without detection.  How many times is there an uninvited male guest on a farm of which owners are unaware and do not take action then,  or later,  to remedy unwanted consequences?

Judy

[cddexter]

You just haven't been around long enough.  And, don't confuse what happened in England with things here, two different situations. 

I told Sandi back in 87 she had red.  At that time she wasn't sure because the heifer wasn't black but it wasn't the same not-black she'd seen elsewhere.

Of course older breeders knew about dwarfism, they just didn't think it mattered.  And believe me, Kerry and longleg were derogatory and not 'true' Dexters.

cheers, c.

[jamshundred]

Here are the herd book pages for Lady Loder's herd I detailed above.

[jamshundred]

Here is the birth record for 1943 for the Grinstead herd.

*IF*  one chose to attribute the deaths of the two heifer calves to chondrodysplasia. . . .  . . the herd percentage loss would be: 5%        That is probably a realistic percentage for experienced breeders of the dwarf cattle when a dwarf bull is bred to a dwarf cow.  The percentage of the breeder in England who kept records was 6%.   







 

[cddexter]

Ah, yes, but she didn't just breed two dwarfs together. She bred everything to everything, so your 'research' reasoning is flawed.  Like when you decided that pha came from Platinum.  I did the work long ago, so don't for a minute suggest you are forcing me to do my own homework:  check out Statenboro. 

[cascade]

Sept 20, 2019 15:08:33 GMT jamshundred said:

You MUST follow the paperwork. To do otherwise is to permit gossip and innuendo to dominate.

Here is Godstone Esmeralda's paperwork.  None of her parents nor grandparents nor great grandparents, nor great great grandparents have records of horns.  They all trace back to 1894 foundation Dexter  "Harley Poll" in the Royal Dublin Society Irish Dexter Herdbooks which said nothing about horns for Dexters.

When you "follow the paperwork" you'll see clearly that Esmeralda simply inherited her poll gene from the foundation polled Dexters.










You can also see in the paperwork that Esmeralda traces back to Spalpeen, 1912 polled bull with scurs.



The paperwork shows clearly that Esmeralda is a very pure Dexter who inherited her poll gene from foundation poll Dexters. The old 1890 Irish Herdbooks tell us that horns were optional for Dexters.  No mention of horns.