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Post by cascade on Jun 30, 2015 6:12:58 GMT
Wee Gaelic Ms. Fermoy has tons of gaps on her fairly recent pedigree Who is Thornwood Peggy? Were her parents even dexters? What about Dark Moonbeam? Angus? Holstein Here's Ms. Fermoy's mother's pedigree. legacydextercattleregistry.com/pedigree.php?registry=A®no=4270PS. The good news is that ALL dexters have scores of non-dexters in their backgrounds and the ONLY thing that keeps dexters as "Dexters" is ongoing selection for dexter traits, generation after generation. |
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Post by jamshundred on Jun 30, 2015 14:37:29 GMT
Still got them blinders on. Mrs. Fermoy is the matriarch of your polled bloodlines. Do you really wish to infer there is yet another outcrossing in those lines? Are there degrees of grade animals? Like first grade, second grade or something? Or after two is it a grade, and after three it is a ____________________? Curious as always. Not sure if there is nomenclature to cover an animal like Saltaire Platinum with so many other non-Dexters in the pedigree.
Kirk, you cannot win this joust. You are breeding bloodlines developed in deceit. I cannot change it or fix or believe me I would. I think all you polled breeders should file a class action law suit and demand recompense for the deceit that keeps you here daily trying to legitimize that which is inexcusable yet trying to tarnish the entire breed with the brush of the deceit of which you have been victim. I just don't understand why you think everyone should be a victim just because you are. Is it " If I cannot have it. . .. no one can have it"? Well, you CAN have it. YOU can help those of us trying to restore this breed to it's original horned status. . .. . . . . and the meat market is such you may actually profit by switching and becoming a "radical" preservationist. Heck, Kirk, almost everybody in America has what you are breeding. Polled animals. They are in every pasture and sale barn on a daily basis. Go for the gusto! Go for REAL horned Dexters. We could use a committed and passionate guy like you.
Judy
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Post by cascade on Jul 1, 2015 3:52:19 GMT
All dexters have scores of non-dexters in their backgrounds. We all know that. Dexters got all their lovely traits FROM other breeds. Nothing wrong with that. That's how new breeds are formed. Here are more blanks (likely outcrossing) in Ms. Fermoy's pedigree legacydextercattleregistry.com/pedigree.php?registry=O®no=EM1511I don't care about that at all.... I bought into dexters because of their AMAZING traits, NOT because of some unfounded myth of centuries-old "Purity". What makes dexters "Pure" is selecting for their excellent traits, generation after generation. PS. I'm thrilled that lots of people are breeding horned dexters. There are more than twice as many horned dexters being born and registered each year now as compared to 25 years ago. Interest in HORNED dexters has doubled in the past 25 years. I help promote them along with polled dexters too. It's a win-win situation. |
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Post by lilbitty on Jul 24, 2015 22:16:09 GMT
Kirk, thank you for your continued input regarding Dexter preservation efforts.
Please know and understand:
WE GET IT!
You don’t need to continue to tell us all that there are holes in the pedigrees of nearly every Dexter afoot (most of which occurred when the English were more concerned about the potential need to learn German than they were the need to keep up with cow registrations).
WE GET IT!
You don’t need to continue to propose that these holes can mean only one thing in your opinion (that those owners were trying to cover up their cross-breeding efforts). A curious idea since in general, in the UK of that era there was a general acceptance of the practice (as exemplified by the Appendix and Experimental registries.)
WE GET IT!
You don’t need to continue to then conclude for all of us that those animals with documented crossbreeding are just as “Dexter” as those without in your opinion.
WE GET IT!
You don’t need to continue to pretend that Saltaire Platinum and all of his polled descendants look just like every other Dexter. (They DON’T HAVE HORNS… DEXTERS ARE A HORNED BREED!!!!)
We GET IT!
In short, you don’t need to continually demonstrate that you do not support Legacy Dexter or Traditional Dexter breeding efforts in any way shape or form.
WE GET IT!
Now why don’t you start using ALL of the time and energy you devote to harassing our productive efforts for something productive of your own? Is trying to get all of us to realize that you are an opinionated and obstinate ass the highest calling you have? If so, you can stop now:
WE GET IT!
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Post by karenp on Aug 21, 2015 22:16:35 GMT
Wee Gaelic Ms. Fermoy has tons of gaps on her fairly recent pedigree Who is Thornwood Peggy? Were her parents even dexters? What about Dark Moonbeam? Angus? Holstein Here's Ms. Fermoy's mother's pedigree. legacydextercattleregistry.com/pedigree.php?registry=A®no=4270PS. The good news is that ALL dexters have scores of non-dexters in their backgrounds and the ONLY thing that keeps dexters as "Dexters" is ongoing selection for dexter traits, generation after generation. but isn't having horns a Dexter trait before it was bred out of many animals? |
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Post by cascade on Aug 22, 2015 21:38:03 GMT
but isn't having horns a Dexter trait before it was bred out of many animals? There has NEVER been a requirement for Dexters to have horns. Dexters were accepted as both horned and hornless for many decades before polled came along. It was the wide-spread practice of dehorning Dexters that changed dexters into a hornless breed. In the UK (home of Dexters), even the show standards of the 1960's said that horns and hornless are equal. Even today, many fans of "horned" dexters dehorn many animals in their herds. The polled gene is simply the most humane way to "Dehorn" a dexter. There is no difference between a dehorned dexter and a naturally hornless (polled) dexter, except that the polled dexters escape the cruelty of dehorning. |
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Post by lilbitty on Sept 4, 2015 20:25:14 GMT
There also "has NEVER been a requirement for Dexters to have": hooves, legs, udders, hair, heads, tails or eyes..., but I think we all agree that these were and are important aspects of the breed.
The earliest standards stated “Horns should be short and moderately thick, springing well from the head, with an inward and slightly upward curve." This seems to more than imply that horns are an important aspect of the breed.
The earliest standards also stated that there was no penalty for "dehorned" animals. As we all know, a "dehorned" animal is not a "polled" animal.
If the original founders of the breed had wished to include polled cattle (which certainly existed at the time) this statement would have been "no penalty for polled or dehorned" or something similar.
There is NO logical argument against the fact that ORIGNINALLY Dexters were designated as a horned breed.
I, for one, have (begrudgingly) accepted that NOW, Dexters include horned and polled animals (thanks to deceit on the part of a few greedy influential people), but I will not allow the "Kirks" of the world rewrite history on this.
The original Dexters were INTENDED to be HORNED (its not like polled genetics are a new invention since the original breed standards were written).
The original Dexter genotype is HORNED.
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