|
|
Post by jamshundred on Mar 26, 2018 17:56:35 GMT
 Gene, I went to the grocery yesterday and there on the milk shelves by the Horizon I normally purchase was .. . . . . . A2 milk! ( The nearest grocery to me is Giant Food). The cost of the milk was $4.79 for the half gallon carton which was right in line with all the other milk. I had a glass with my lunch and it was good tasting milk. I expect it will do well. I was thinking that you played no small part in the A2 story. Had you not heard of the company, and had those first cows tested overseas, who knows how long it would have taken for them to break into the market place? Probably the best decision the company has made was to grant permission for individual cattle owners to test the milk from their own cows. There was immediate interest and lots of testing when UCD first was able to make the test available, and that generated discussion and debate and free advertising which gives the company a brand recognition boost I would think. I cook with milk but rarely drink it. I found this milk to have a nice flavor. Judy |
|
|
|
Post by genebo on Mar 26, 2018 23:37:19 GMT
Judy,
I remember that one of the arguments we put forth to get the A2 Corporation to allow private owners to use their DNA test for A2 and A1 beta casein was that we would create an awareness and a storm of demand for their products.
It's working, isn't it?
The first tests for A2 involving private owners were done at VGL of UC Davis in late 2010. We've come a long way, haven't we.
I have a container of the same A2 milk in my refrigerator.
|
|
|
|
Post by WVCaity on Mar 27, 2018 12:01:02 GMT
Very cool! You both should be very proud of yourselves! Would love to know what other groceries are carrying this? I’m limited on my options here, but will be in contact with local store managers to request they start stocking!
Caitlin
|
|
|
|
Post by WVCaity on Mar 27, 2018 12:15:23 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by genebo on Mar 27, 2018 15:21:55 GMT
Publix and Fresh Market do.
|
|
|
|
Post by lakeportfarms on Mar 27, 2018 19:38:12 GMT
In my opinion the A2 milk fad has been one of the worst possible things for the Dexter breed. Those breeders who were commanding the higher prices for their cows and bulls (polled breeders) could easily afford A2 testing on all of their calves that were born, especially bull calves, and promoted it heavily, selling more polled, red, A2/A2, and especially polled bulls.
Most Traditional breeders couldn't have cared less about the A2 status, and still don't. Or they gave in and started breeding for A2 status, and it was easy to find a polled bull that was tested, so why fight the A2 fad, and stick to your principles with breeding Dexters out of Traditional pedigrees. The frenzy was (not so much now) ridiculous among the polled breeders and buyers, many of whom will never milk a cow in their life. There is nothing unique about A2/A2 with the Dexter breed. It can be present in ANY breed of cattle, including Holsteins, Jersey, and Guernsey cows.
Many of my best udders and most beautiful Dexters are A1/A1. Traditional lines, and many that carry red. Should I cull these cows in favor of red polled A2/A2 animals like some others have, or even Traditional cows or bulls that produce udders that hang down like a bowling ball, with poor front and rear attachment, teats that point in crazy directions, or 6 teat cows, or cows with 4 teats that may as well be 2, because the other two are so poorly placed and formed? Well, I won't...I won't throw away the years of evaluation by the breeders of these lines before me, or our own good choices in purchasing these cows and evaluating the calves that they produce, in favor of a genetic test that doesn't require any critical thought, but only requires a leap of faith. The calves don't know the difference between A2 and A1, but they sure will know the difference if they can't find the teat or fit it in their mouth just after they were born.
Why in the world purchase homogenized, pasturized, A2 milk? Run through a bulk tank, put in a tank truck (that probably hauled A1 Holstein milk the day before)and shipped to the processor. I very much doubt that in all the steps in the handling process, that there isn't some co-mingling of the milk product along the way.
|
|
|
|
Post by lakeportfarms on Mar 27, 2018 21:23:48 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by genebo on Mar 28, 2018 2:08:43 GMT
The production, collection and delivery plan that the A2 Corporation developed in New Zealand addressed every problem of how to get pure A2 milk to the public.
First, the dairy must sign up with the Corporation and be subject to monitoring. There was a hefty fee for joining.
Second, each dairy must become completely stocked with cows that only deliver type A2 milk.
Third, Every container used to collect the milk and to transport the milk must be used for A2 milk only.
Fourth, the milk must be delivered to the processing plant owned by the Corporation, where none but A2 milk is processed.
Close monitoring of the purity was done at every stage. Any contamination of milk resulted in the disposal of the entire batch.
This same system was put in place in the United States, at the Prairieland Dairy in Nebraska. All of their products were collected, transported and processed by the A2 Corporation.
No private individuals except for Gearld Frye, were allowed to test their cattle for A2 and A1 beta casein. The test was patented and the Corporation did not want outsiders having the means to make claims that they did not spend the money, time and effort to insure.
The breakthrough that caused the A2 Corporation to grant a license to let private owners to test for A2 gave private owners a tool that they had never had before. Information that could be beneficial to their family's health, but would not be permitted for commercial use. That is why the complex language on the aggremment you sign in order to use the test.
What the public does with this information could not be predicted. It was hoped that the use of the test would provide the owners with a healthier alternative to drinking milk of unknown type. It was hoped that the internet talk would spur interest in A2 milk (the commercial A2 milk) and that those who couldn't milk their own A2 cow could buy the A2 Corporation's processed milk.
That seems to have happened much as hoped for. What was unforeseen was the way that some owners would deal with this new information that the DNA test gave them.
It was understandable that existing commercial dairies would be strongly opposed to the advent of this new type of commercial milk. After all, the tests revealed that the majority of all cows providing milk to commercial dairies produced milk that contained A1 beta casein. It would be expensive for them to convert and they would be subject to a more intense form of control. It may take a dairy several years to effect the changeover. Every owner of an A1 producing cow could find the cow devalued as the test results were revealed.
Not surprisingly, the dairies strongly resisted. What is not quite as surprising is that some private owners have resisted using the information provided by the DNA test for A2 and A1. Sure, those whose cows tested to be A1/A1 or A1/A2 might choose not to disclose this, but for some to refuse to use the information to make intelligent breeding choices is not so easy to understand.
There has never been a scientific study that purported to prove that drinking type A2 beta casein is bad for you. Several scientific studies have proven that drinking type A1 beta casein is harmful to your health. Even if A2 isn't good for you, at least it isn't bad for you. The same can't be said of the reverse.
I made my decisions based upon feeding the milk to my grandchildren. The wrong decision might not hurt my old body. It's too late for that. But the possibility that the wrong decision could adversely affect the young children is too horrible to consider.
Today, my grandchildren have ready access to milk that is free of A1 beta casein in several nearby supermarkets and can be bought on "cow shares" from a number of local farmers.
|
|
|
|
Post by lakeportfarms on Mar 28, 2018 12:23:04 GMT
Gene,
Did you see the cleaning process for bulk tanks and transport tankers? I doubt that the A2 corporation has any special method for cleaning this equipment, and they certainly are not exempt from the pasteurization requirements. And they're not selling milk that hasn't be homogenized.
This is the homogenization process. It's not just a matter of shaking the milk up.
Homogenization today is usually a two step process. The first stage, similar to Gaulin's early device, pushes milk through small, tapered tubes or pores. As the diameter shrinks and the flow of milk remains constant, pressure builds up and fat globules break apart in the turbulence.
The higher the pressure, the smaller the particles. How much pressure? Typically 2,000-3,000 pounds per square inch (psi), although some super homogenizers work at over 1000 times atmospheric pressure- 14,500psi and higher!
You can jam milk through pretty small holes with force like that. Before homogenization, fat globules range in size from 1-10 microns (a micron = ~0.00004 inch). After, the size range is reduced to 0.2-2 microns.
As the much smaller fat globules begin to reassemble, they include fragments of whey and casein in their walls. Some are completely surrounded by a layer of protein. The tendency is for these new, chemically altered globules to clump together. Stage two of the homogenization process breaks up this unwanted assembly and makes sure everything stays in solution.
Some researchers believe that these protein-heavy fat globules can potentially increase homogenized milk's ability to cause allergic reactions. Numerous studies confirm this, at least with rodents as test subjects. Other known effects on milk quality include increased viscosity (the milk is thickened in consistency) whiter appearance, lowered heat stability, increased sensitivity to light-triggered oxidation and less pronounced milk flavor.
Homogenization usually follows pasteurization because the enzyme lipase, if not first heat deactivated, can begin digesting the ruptured fat globules, leading to rancidity in the milk. That's becoming less of a problem, however, because at the incredibly high pressures to which milk is now being subjected, very high heat is generated, resulting in what is, effectively, a second pasteurization process.
So Homogenization is essentially becoming a second pasteurization process...we don't think that has any effect on the milk?
Cleaning the equipment uses an akaline (often combined with chlorine bleach) solution, then an acid wash rinse. I'm sure they may run a fresh water, high temperature water rinse after that, but they still use this solution to clean the equipment. Between the pasteurization(s), homogenization, cleaning of equipment and tank trucks, I just don't see how a casein is going to have that much of an overall effect on this processed milk. And the studies were done by the corporation that promotes it! Of course they're going to adjust the studies to show that there is a benefit. Like how NOAA "adjusts" temperature data to show how there is global warming. How many different types of caseins are in milk, by the way? Have studies been done on all of them?
If you're going to go down that route, why not stuff some "Prevegen", made from some jellyfish, as a memory enhancer. I think the company has done some tests to show that it improves memory. I can't really say for sure, because I don't take it and can't remember if it's supposed to help or not. I'm surprised I remembered the name. Probably because I listen to talk radio a lot and their commercials are on all the time.
You could also use "Super Beets" powder in your milk to improve your circulation, I've heard a lot of commercials on talk radio for them too, and I think their studies have shown that it really helps. Lots of reviews from people who say they have a lot more energy. That's a good thing isn't it?
Do you insist that your grand kids also avoid any processed foods that contain grains or things that have not been certified organic? Last I heard a lot of corn and soybeans (which go into those products) have been from fields that have genetically modified seeds that allow the spraying of Glyphosate that kill all of the vegetation but not the genetically modified plant (otherwise known as Round Up, and I think it was a component of "Agent Orange"). Lucky for our soldiers back in the 60's and 70's the Vietnamese hadn't found a way to genetically modify their jungles!
I still stand by my conviction that A2 is right up there with the more damaging things that have affected the Dexter breed. Selecting for this one trait, above so many others that are far more important to the breed, is foolish.
|
|
|
|
Post by lakeportfarms on Mar 28, 2018 12:33:46 GMT
The European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) reviewed the scientific literature and published their results in 2009. As part of their evaluation, the EFSA looked at the laboratory studies that had been done on BCM-7 where they had found that BCM-7 can act as a weak opioid receptor agonist.[2]
The EFSA found no relationship between chronic diseases and drinking milk with the A1 protein.[2] In most of the animal studies, BCM-7 was not administered orally, as humans would be exposed to it, but rather was given to animals by injection into the peritoneal cavity or even directly into the spinal cord or brain, which makes these studies not useful for understanding how BCM-7 might affect humans.[2]
The EFSA study emphasized the dangers of drawing conclusions from correlations identified in epidemiological studies and the dangers of not reviewing all the evidence at hand.[2] Another 2009 review found no demonstration that consuming milk with A1 casein causes diabetes.[4] A 2014 review of research into the relationship between consumption of dairy products (including A1 and A2 proteins) and the incidence of diabetes found that while there appears to be a positive correlation between consumption of dairy products by babies and the incidence of type 1 diabetes (T1D), and an inverse relationship between the consumption of dairy products and the development of type 2 diabetes (T2D), these correlations are tentative; it is impossible to determine what component or components of milk might be responsible for these effects, and it is unlikely that the expensive and complex research to determine the answers to these questions will ever be conducted.
And note this:
The company initially marketed its milk as containing no A1 protein, but in 2003 the New Zealand Commerce Commission tested the milk and found some A1 protein in it, and forbade the company from saying the milk had no A1 protein; the commission notice of the ruling said: "Although the A2 Corporation expressed confidence during the investigation that its quality controls were sufficient to exclude the vast majority of beta casein A1, it acknowledged that it could not be certain that there was no A1 in A2 milk."[1]
|
|
|
|
Post by jamshundred on Mar 28, 2018 13:49:49 GMT
I prefer to drink organic milk without hormones from grass fed animals with no gmo in their feed. I ideally would hope those of whom I am fond have access to raw A2 milk because I am a believer. However, I raise cows with the A1 genetics. because they also have purpose. It is a matter of choice and ideology. Cows are culled for less than perfect udders when they are quite capable of raising their calves and being productive animals. Or because their backs are not as straight as the owner envisions perfection. Or because they have horns. Or because there is a white spot on the brisket. Far more animals are destroyed due to the quest for perfection or convenience than for any other reason. I doubt A1 will ever catch up with the other criteria man uses to judge his stock.
It is all rather silly when I consider I have consumed gallons and gallons more soda pop in my life than I have milk and while others are popping their pills daily for this and that. . . I don't have a single prescription for anything. Maybe I could get rich promoting the health benefits of Dr. Pepper?
Judy
|
|
|
|
Post by genebo on Mar 28, 2018 19:27:57 GMT
Judy,
I also raise Dexter cattle with A1 genetics for a particular trait I am breeding for. However, I do not sell cows that produce A1 beta casein to be used as milk cows without a thorough explanation of the potential for health problems by doing it.
I'm waiting now for DNA results from a breeding where I bred an A1/A2 bull with a particular desired trait to an A1/A2 cow with the same desired trait. I'm hoping that the calf will be A2/A2 or A2/A1, but realize that there is a chance that it will be A1/A1. That didn't stop me from the breeding, though. We will keep on trying until we eventually get offspring with the desired trait plus A2/A2.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 20:38:14 GMT
I do not drink homogenized milk. when I dont have my own milk to drink I get milk from a single family dairy. it is not homogenized but is vat pasteurized. It is surly a mix of A1 and A2 from Jerseys. the .2 -2 micron from homogenization is concerning at that size of particle I think it could be passed directly into the blood stream without being digested.
some of my best milk cows have been A1/A1 and I drink there milk without any reason for concern. I feel no need to say anything to a potential buyer about A2. its just not an issue for us.
I do think some people may have digestibility issues with A1 but I think far more people have issues with pasteurized milk. I do not think A1 is to blame for every health issue that has pleged man since the beginning of time.
Gluten is one of those things that a small group of people have issues with. So now they say it is bad for everyone. I recently read that schools were promoting not having birthday cakes because one of the kids might have an issue with it. Really!!
|
|
|
|
Post by lakeportfarms on Mar 29, 2018 11:42:20 GMT
Meijer Thrifty Acres here has A2 milk. They even have A2 chocolate milk. Sorry, but they lose all credibility with me as a "healthy" alternative to regular milk when you offer that. Or maybe they've found cows that make natural chocolate milk too? I realize they can't get around the pasteurization process, but homogenization isn't required and I agree with Mike that the levels that they are taking it to now could very well cause issues that are not fully understood yet. I didn't notice the price of the A2 milk, but they have regular whole milk for $.99 per gallon. Chocolate milk is $1.99/gallon. They have to compete with Aldi, who sells their milk for $.96/gallon.
I've been a big milk drinker my entire life. I eat pizza, I love cheese of all kinds. My favorite lunchtime sandwich is a grilled cheese on thick white buttered bread. I wish the bread didn't come from Roundup ready wheat but it probably does. I drink soda pop, in moderation, but it's made with High Fructose Corn Syrup that is also probably from Roundup ready corn. Obviously I eat red meat. We have two pigs that will soon be butchered.
A2 is most likely all about marketing, real milk, not almond or soy milk. Maybe some people do tolerate it better, or maybe it's just a placebo effect. I still think it (and other single trait selection like polled or color) has been damaging to the Dexter breed. Red, for example...I could have had dozens of Traditional red calves on the ground by now. I'm approaching 20 cows that carry red. I have three bulls that carry red. I still only have one red cow. Why? because I'm breeding for top notch udders, good conformation, good feet and legs, and I have some excellent bulls available that are not going to make red calves, ever. When I have these things how I want them to be, then I'll try to make some red ones that have these characteristics.
|
|
|
|
Post by genebo on Mar 29, 2018 22:22:47 GMT
I have yet to read anyone's claims that A1 beta casein is good for you and promotes improved health.
Mike, you made an important point when you said that you drink A1/A1 milk without an reason for concern. The percentage of the population that might suffer ill effects from drinking A1 beta casein is small, and since we all have been drinking milk without any idea whether it contained A1 beta casein or not prior to 2010, I would assume that any of us old people who haven't suffered from it aren't going to.
In order to have the type 1 diabetes reaction to A1 beta casein, you would first have to have inherited the genetics to enable you to develop type 1 diabetes. Thsi is a small percentage of people. Next you would have had to have avoided all the other things that could trigger the onset of type 1 diabetes. Now that you have made it that far without already contracting it, you would then have to drink A1 beta casein for the first time. That is what happened to the Maori tribesmen who moved to the mainland of New Zealand and drank commercial dairy milk. It is also what happens when a new-born baby begins drinking milk that contains A1 beta casein.
How many of you would deliberately feed A1 beta casein to a young child? How many would appreciate knowing if your family milk cow produces it? That is what the A2 test is for. That is why it's important to provide that information to all prospective buyers of your Dexters who intend to milk the cow for their family.
As far as whether someone goes to the store and buys milk from the A2 Corporation or not, I care not. I feel no responsibility for those who choose to drink commercial dairy milk, whether raw or homogenized or of unknown beta casein content.
I would feel responsibility for deliberately refusing to test a cow that I then sold to a family to provide milk. I wouldn't do that. I would make sure that anyone who bought a cow that produced any A1 beta casein in her milk knew about it and was either not going to milk her or didn't care about it. They would be informed, you can bet on that.
Every Dexter I own is listed on the Legacy Dexter Cattle Registry and displays its A2 status on the info page. I haven't finished updating a few of my PDCA listings with full DNA testing info, but will have that done, soon. The ADCA doesn't display A2 status, so you are forced to look to other sources for the information.
The best source is me. Just ask me. I'll tell you the status of any of mine and email you a copy of the results if you want them.
No hiding results here.
|
|
|
|
Post by hillnvalley on Mar 31, 2018 22:28:43 GMT
Reasons not to focus on A2/A2 status in Dexters.
1.Most people don't raise dexters for milk and if your going to focus on traits in Dexters, their are other more beneficial traits to look for than a2/a2.
2 People originally supposed the A1A1 issue resided with largely in holsteins, but after more research they have found that many cattle breeds carry it with the exception of African and Asian( maybe a good reason for that) cattle types. So if the gene is natural to certain cattle what happens if you work twords removing it. What other traits go along with it?
3. Do a poll. What ethnicity drinks milk? What ethnicity milks cows in history and today? So if not all people are affected by A1A1 milk why get rid of all the cows that carry it?
"AMERICAN ADULTS WITH LACTOSE INTOLERANCE.*30-50MILLION
ASIAN-AMERICANS
90%
AFRICAN-AMERICANS
75%
HISPANIC-AMERICANS
51%
CAUCASIAN-AMERICANS**
20%
*Data compiled from various scientific sources.
**Less common in those with Northern European ancestry, more common in those with Jewish, Arab, Italian, or Greek ancestry."
Finally if Dexter buyers want testing done they should be willing to pay for it if the owner is not willing. If the buyer walks because testing hasn't been done, that's their choice. I agree with Gene, being upfront if you have the information is the best policy. If someone believes they are affected by A1A1 milk they should know before buying a milk cow. Getting rid of all dexters with A1/A1 could be as devastating as getting rid of all dexters with horns. As far as I'm concerned if anyone on this forum has a cull cow, because she's not a2/a2 but has an excellent udder , production, temperament and hardiness, let me know. I'd be willing to off load her, for a reduced price of course...wink😉
|
|
|
|
Post by lonecowhand on Apr 2, 2018 20:05:42 GMT
Hillnvalley, Me too on the cull cow described!
But if I were looking at two potential cows who were similarly equipped except for beta casein status, I would want the A2/A2 cow, just to have a genetic reservoir of the type, to make my own digestive observations.
I do think it's of interest that humans and most other mammals' milk is A2/A2 (and this may be internet hearsay, I can not document a source)
The jury seems to still be out on the advantages of A2/A2, but even the anecdotal evidence is enticing.
No cow should be culled on it's account ever,IMO, and I don't believe anyone reading this thinks one should be.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 21:05:05 GMT
No cow should be culled on it's account ever,IMO, and I don't believe anyone reading this thinks one should be. Think bigger picture. Cows that dont sell are processed for beef. So by choosing to by the A2 animal you are also choosing to send the A1 to the processor. |
|
|
|
Post by lonecowhand on Apr 2, 2018 21:47:35 GMT
Ouch, Mike, I'm assuming I am not automatically sending one to the abattoir!
That would make choosing impossible. I assume cows are kept to produce calves or milk.
I am one of those lucky people who can drink regular milk, so don't send any To Camp on my account!
While I would like to know the beta casein test results, they would not be criteria to cull for me.
|
|
|
|
Post by genebo on Apr 2, 2018 23:25:23 GMT
Anybody that selects their breeding pairs needs to look at the total picture. Selecting for a single trait is not the best way, no matter what the trait is.
In the same way, selecting against a single trait can sometimes be the wrong thing to do.
Look at how badly the numbers of chondro carriers was reduced within the few years since the chondro test was made readily available and cheap.
Lots of PHA carriers were sent to slaughter without consideration for whether they might have also been the carriers of some other really good traits.
But nothing would equal the silliness of selecting against A2/A2 genes.
I have bull calves born here to the same parents. They seem to be identical in every respect. Even their DNA test results are identical except for one result: One is A2/A2 and one is A1/A2.
I will keep one of these bull calves to become the herd sire. Based on what I have told you. Don't make up any imaginary postulations. Tell me your good reason why I should choose to keep one of the bulls instead of the other.
This is not imaginary. I currently have the two bull calves and will make my selection. I could post pictures taken at the same age. You won't be able to tell them apart unless I label them. So the choice hinges entirely upon whether you would choose the A2/A2 or the A1/A2 bull. That is the reason for making the test available to you.
|
|
|
|
Post by lakeportfarms on Apr 3, 2018 12:29:21 GMT
No two cows (or bulls) are ever equal in every respect. There are always subtle differences, if one spends enough time to get to know them and has a critical eye for everything about them and isn't blinded by pedigree, or sentiments about the bull or cow they are out of. Even full siblings have differences. I could take an obligate A2/A2 bull calf born this year, and compare him to an obligate A2/A2 bull calf out of the same pairing next year, and there would be differences.
I have two bulls that we are evaluating for our eventual replacement for Shadwell (who happens to be A2/A2). One born last year, and one born this year. Same dam (Luc), same color (black, carries dun), both will be A1/A2. I don't care that they are a "downgrade" in milk protein. The udder structure on their mother is spectacular. I could show you photos of each of them at the same age, and you couldn't tell the difference either from the photos, but there are differences other than one is a year older than the other, and I'm leaning more toward the bull calf born early this year so far.
Many would be happy to have the bull out of Luc born last year, despite his A1/A2 status. But I've been able to observe them both on a regular basis, and I'm comparing them not only to each other, but also the dozens of other bull calves born in the past year. Some of those bull calves are A2/A2, and although they're fine bull prospects, other factors are more important to me. I will give them both more time, and eventually pick the one that I think will provide a similar, and possibly better result when mated to high quality heifers and cows. And just in case, I'll have Shadwell collected this year as a back-up option for our own use in future years.
Added: By the way, Shadwell is not our breeding. The owner of Shadwell hadn't even registered him when we found him. We knew he could be registered because his sire and dam were, but we had absolutely zero knowledge of any of his test results before we brought him home. The breeder had two bulls, one a year older than the other. They got along well together until one day when they didn't. His choice was to keep the other bull, and make Shadwell available for sale. I would have been happy with either one, both were fine bulls and each had their own strengths and weaknesses. We purchased Shadwell based on his conformation, feet and leg structure, and temperament, not color or milk protein. He just happened to be A2/A2. I'm happy that he wasn't tested because at the beginning of the A2 craze, it may have influenced our decision because he wasn't tested.
A few months ago we visited Shaun Lord. We looked at hundreds of her Dexters. Almost all black. We wrote down our favorite ear tag numbers on a notepad, and Shaun looked them up. More than 75% were her Ace of Clovebrook daughters. We could see the differences between the various breedings, and this was only during a 4 hour visit. Spend more time with them and I bet I could have picked out the daughters of her other bulls with pretty good accuracy. But we preferred the look and conformation of the Ace daughters.
|
|
|
|
Post by hillnvalley on Apr 3, 2018 13:32:54 GMT
Consider this excerpt taken from www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/a1-a2-milk-do-cow-genetics-even-matter/If fact, in the comments section of that post I wrote four years ago, Mark McAfee, Founder of Organic Pastures Dairy in California, said the following: Sarah, I agree with much of what you have shared….but let me help out by filling in the blanks a little. I am very close to this A-2 subject matter and can help clear the air. Dr. Cowan has privately apologized to me for writing the forward to The Devil in the Milk. He said that if he knew then what he knows now he would not have said what he wrote. The A-2 story is far from conclusive. Instead of “The Devil is in the Milk”….the better statement is.. “The Real Devil is in the CAFO Grain Feeding of the Cows and Processing of the Milk”. Keep up the great teaching and nutritional work!! Most kind regards, Mark McAfee Founder Organic Pastures Dairy Company Fresno CA I recently emailed Mark to see if he had any additional information on the A1 and A2 milk issue, and he responded by saying that he would be attending the upcoming International Milk Genomics conference in Aarhus, Denmark, where A2 will be discussed in depth. But, at the present time, his opinion is the same – that the jury is still out on the A1 versus A2 milk issue and whether cow genetics is of any importance whatsoever. |
|
|
|
Post by lakeportfarms on Apr 4, 2018 11:19:51 GMT
Consider this excerpt taken from www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/a1-a2-milk-do-cow-genetics-even-matter/If fact, in the comments section of that post I wrote four years ago, Mark McAfee, Founder of Organic Pastures Dairy in California, said the following: Sarah, I agree with much of what you have shared….but let me help out by filling in the blanks a little. I am very close to this A-2 subject matter and can help clear the air. Dr. Cowan has privately apologized to me for writing the forward to The Devil in the Milk. He said that if he knew then what he knows now he would not have said what he wrote. The A-2 story is far from conclusive. Instead of “The Devil is in the Milk”….the better statement is.. “The Real Devil is in the CAFO Grain Feeding of the Cows and Processing of the Milk”. Keep up the great teaching and nutritional work!! Most kind regards, Mark McAfee Founder Organic Pastures Dairy Company Fresno CA I recently emailed Mark to see if he had any additional information on the A1 and A2 milk issue, and he responded by saying that he would be attending the upcoming International Milk Genomics conference in Aarhus, Denmark, where A2 will be discussed in depth. But, at the present time, his opinion is the same – that the jury is still out on the A1 versus A2 milk issue and whether cow genetics is of any importance whatsoever. Yup, exactly my thinking. Sometimes people find a way of ignoring the most logical and simple explanation for something and finding some kind of complicated reason that may or may not be relevant. Most of the time, money is involved. That's how I see the A2 milk promotion. Money was to be made for the A2 Corporation, and then money was to be made for the test labs, and money was to be made for those who tested and found A2/A2 cows in their herds. What seems to be lost on so many people is how the A2 selection favored the owners of cows that were most likely going to test for it. And that happened to be those who favored the red polled Dexter, because they were commanding the highest prices. If you had a red polled A2/A2 it was going to sell immediately, and if you didn't have A2/A2, it didn't really matter because it was polled and it was going to sell fairly quickly anyway. If you happened to be "stuck" with horned Dexters, they weren't going to sell very easily unless it was A2/A2, and even then it wasn't going to sell that fast. So if you had horned Dexters why in the heck are you going to spend hundreds of dollars if you have a modest sized herd only to find that you mostly had A1/A2 in your herd, and now you were going to be stuck testing every single damn calf to see what the A2 milk status was. Absolutely crazy!!! As Mike stated earlier, this meant that the A1 carrying Dexters were more likely to go for beef, despite what other good qualities it may have possessed. And again, this was going to fall mostly on the horned Dexters. And it was also going to lead to many who may have previously been Traditional breeders throwing in the towel and purchasing an A2/A2 polled bull, assuming they were going to keep raising or registering Dexters in the first place. Many probably just sold out, frustrated with the high costs of testing just to be able to register or sell a Dexter. Promoting A2/A2 was and is, a distraction (and damaging) to the preservation effort!!! Here is a hypothetical question for you Gene, if you had found that Brenn had been A1/A1, would your opinion of him be different? Would you have sought out an A2/A2 bull in favor of Brenn? There are other Traditional bulls out there, short legged, that are A2/A2. More could be produced. If Brenn had been A1/A1, would you have collected him, or pulled his straws from the market if he had already been collected prior to when you tested him? If Brenn had been A1/A1, and many of your cows were A1/A1, making it difficult to ever get to have a herd comprised mainly of A2/A2 Dexters without purchasing them from another, more genetically fortunate line of Dexters, would you be so convinced of the benefits of A2 milk? I have a number of Traditional Dexters, with physical udder qualities that are among the best available, most of whom are A1/A1, and many I don't even know because I refuse to test for it unless a prospective purchaser is willing to pay for a test. Would you say my opinion of A2 is biased because I wasn't fortunate enough to have Dexter cows that were A2/A2? If so, why wouldn't the opposite be true, and those who have primarily A2 genetics in their herd are biased in favor of the supposed benefits of A2/A2? |
|
|
|
Post by genebo on Apr 4, 2018 21:41:11 GMT
Hans,
Your question makes too many assumptions that aren't true. My focus in breeding was to preserve the Traditional Dexter cattle that first attracted me to the breed. My best seedstock came from Judy Sponaugle. Most of them came from the Windridge herd originally.
Over the first few years, I pared the herd to the point that it was almost exclusively from the Wihdridge line. Three times I had my bull evaluated. Three times the graders failed to note a flaw. Based upon this, I was pleased with my herd and focused on breeding to supply Traditional Dexter cattle to the growing market.
Note that I did not focus on chondro, nor did I focus on A2 milk proteins. As a matter of fact, it would have been useless for me to want to, for no private owners were allowed to use the DNA test for A1 and A2 at that time. I wrote of the beneficial characteristics of Dexter milk back then. I wrote about how the fat globules were smaller and were easier to digest. I wrote about the benefits of Dexter beef and how a small farmer could raise Dexter cattle on all grass for a healthier product to put on their tables. I wrote about the superior quality of Dexter beef and how it won many contests for best beef. I had a lot to tell about when I put my Dexters on the market. I had a lot of factors to work with when selecting my breeding match-ups. None involved beta casein.
In 2006 I learned about the "Devil in the Milk" and wondered if Dexters carried the devil? I was frustrated to discover that I couldn't test them to find out. I set out to find out. Note that I still didn't know how my Dexters would prove out. That could not be any influence. I wanted to get permission to have Dexter cattle tested for the "Devil". I discovered a way after about a year of searching. It involved sending samples to a man who had a cousin that owned a dairy in New Zealand. He belonged to the A2 Corporation plan and could test his dairy cattle. I made arrangements to send him up to 6 samples twice a year to be tested for the type of beta casein they produced. The results were sent back to me as CC, CA or AA. This compares to what we today call A2/A2. A2/A1 or A1/A1.
I spread the word among people who owned Traditional and Legacy Dexter cattle, that we would include in these samples a number of historically significant Dexter. Of greatest interest was a breeding pair that had produced a number of offspring. In that manner, we would be able to apply the results of a few to provide obligate results for many. Over the next two years I was able to test 16 Dexter cattle and provide obligate results to several more. 6 of these Dexters were mine. There were several other owners who provided samples to be tested.
I made some enemies by accepting samples only from Legacy or Traditional Dexters. No Platinum or Lucifer. You weren't involved. Denying Lucifer had nothing to do with you. I never even made your acquaintance until much later. I promised I wouldn't test any cattle that were to be used in a commercial dairy in competition with the A2 Corporation. I had to turn down a few samples for that reason.
Our work to make the A2 test available didn't bear fruit until 2009, when Judy Sponaugle put in so much effort that the A2 Corporation relented and granted the first license to test privately owned cattle for beta casein type. The test was first made available in 2010.
That's right, 2010. Just 7.5 years ago. Compare that to the introduction of the red polled blood into the Dexter breed in 1992. That makes it kind of silly to blame A2 testing for what red polled blood has done to the breed.
Back in 2005 I chose Brenn of Paradise as my new herd bull. Born in 2004, he began his breeding at age 7 months. I had him GeneStar tested for feed efficiency, beef quality, beef tenderness and one other thing, I forget waht. He scored well in all tests. His offspring gathered acclaim. Prominent Dexter breeders traveled here to see him and fell in love with him. One ADCA official came 3 times, arranging to include him in their breeding program. All before A2 testing. I arranged to have Brenn collected in 2006, the same year that I got his test result from New Zealand. Discovering that he was CC was a bonus, not a driving factor. It came way too late for that.
I did test for everything else I could. I wanted to make the best breeding decisions I could. In 2004, DNA testing was archaic. The only things you could test for was parentage, chondro and color (red or black). It took months to get a chondro test. Too late, in many cases. My testing grew with the improvements in technology and the invention and availability of tests. Today every Dexter born here is tested for genotype and is parentage verified. It is tested for color and dun. It is tested for beta casein (A1 or A2) It is tested for chondro. Then it is tested for PHA. These test results are added to the other evidence to make breeding selections.
One rule is paramount: Every Dexter raised here will be Legacy or Traditional. I am committed to preserving the Dexter breed. I will not add another single animal to the widening pool of modern animals in the breed. No, not even if it were A2/A2.
Actually, one of my Dexters is A1/A1, but has other traits that are more important. Because of the other traits she is kept in the breeding program. I have bred her to an A2/A2 bull whenever possible. Once, a different trait took precedence and I bred her to an A1/A2 bull. So you don't need to keep making the assumption that I focus on A2 beta casein above all else. Remember what making assumptions does.
Every factor, every trait of Dexter cattle is important. The breed isn't defined by a single characteristic. It is a complete, whole animal. One of the finest forms of cattle ever produced. It deserves its place in the universe. I intend to continue to devote myself to preserving and even recreating the Legacy and Traditional Dexters in all their variety.
I invite every one of you to apply yourself to that same goal, to preserve the Dexter breed.
|
|
|
|
Post by hillnvalley on Apr 4, 2018 22:42:07 GMT
Genebo said:
Every factor, every trait of Dexter cattle is important. The breed isn't defined by a single characteristic. It is a complete, whole animal. One of the finest forms of cattle ever produced. It deserves its place in the universe. I intend to continue to devote myself to preserving and even recreating the Legacy and Traditional Dexters in all their variety.
I invite every one of you to apply yourself to that same goal, to preserve the Dexter breed.
Sounds like great advice!
|
|
|
|
Post by jamshundred on Apr 6, 2018 13:58:08 GMT
Setting aside the name on the carton. .. . . . this IS very tasty milk. ( To my palette and preferences). I am going to keep on buying it!
|
|
|
|
Post by genebo on Apr 7, 2018 0:09:32 GMT
My reaction, precisely! Yum!
|
|
|
|
Post by lonecowhand on Apr 25, 2018 20:07:00 GMT
The April 25th edition of the Wall Street journal has an article about some major dairies jumping onto the A2A2 market since there appears to be demand, after years of casting aspersions on the concept and product.
I have learned nothing about adding links over the years, so you'll have to look it up! Sorry! Technologically Declined!
While I hear those of you who would not actively breed (or cull) for or against it, to me just another possible benefit of the Dexter Breed!
|
|
Gene,
