|
Post by cascade on Oct 28, 2019 5:56:56 GMT
In 1989, the year before Saltaire Platinum was born, the ADCA registered about 360 HORNED Dexters.
In 2017, the ADCA registered about 650 HORNED Dexters and that doesn't include PDCA.
The number of horned Dexters registered each year has doubled since Saltaire Platinum was imported.
It looks like Saltaire Platinum greatly helped horned Dexters.
Saltaire Platinum matched the original 1890 Irish Dexter Breed Standard perfectly. An excellent purebred Dexter bull, and he has been DNA tested twice as purebred Dexter.
|
|
|
Post by jamshundred on Oct 28, 2019 12:37:54 GMT
As a current representative of ADCA, is the association on board with you dispensing your theories as fact when the world Dexter community is critical of your attempts to revise history with liberal methods of nuance? Asking for a friend of course. đź‘ż
|
|
|
Post by cascade on Oct 28, 2019 15:36:56 GMT
Who is the current representative of the ADCA that you are referring too?
I'm a dues-paying regular vanilla member of the ADCA and nothing more. I only represent myself.
I simply research the science and history of Dexters (and other heritage breeds) using my skills and extensive experience and I share that well-researched information.
Unfortunately, many people in the world of Dexters fell into the trap of believing a bunch of old myths, but fortunately, here in 2019, we have easy access to science and DNA testing and historical records that prove most of the old myths wrong.
The real history and real science and real data about Dexters is much more interesting than the old myths.
Why fight a losing battle to keep the old dying myths alive?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2019 17:28:33 GMT
Not true Kirk. Or are you saying the ADCA is using your name without your permission?
|
|
|
Post by cascade on Oct 28, 2019 20:58:58 GMT
Because of my extensive knowledge and understanding of Dexter history and genetics, and my background in information analysis, I offered my services to proofread any historical information to assure that only facts were being presented, without the myths. I was assured that only archival facts would be presented, without the myths, so I withdrew my name from consideration, before officially becoming part of any committee.
This frees me up to continue to be able to freely research and share the real history and real science of Dexters, here and elsewhere.
The real history and real facts of Dexters are much more interesting than the myths.
|
|
|
Post by jamshundred on Oct 28, 2019 23:42:22 GMT
I think you should have a talk with your "handlers" then ! !
Saltaire Platinum WAS only considered as a Purebred Dexter ( in the US) because the truth of his pedigree was hidden. ( But you know that don't you).
The truth has now been confirmed by ALL parties. So drop the pretense.
I guess we will just have to keep refuting the constant attempts to revise history as we did with dwarfism until the populace of the breed realizes the game you have been playing is a psychological one. . . . . the type they use in addiction therapy and political re-education camps to alter one's thinking and opinions and behavior. If you make a statement over and over and over. . . . soon, it will be absorbed into the mind as if it were truth.
We have all thought you a tool of ADCA for a long time. .. . . . . .now it is "on paper". Yep. ADCA has been desperate to revise history for a long time, but so far. .. .you have failed them. You can keep trying but I think the fact that the polled market has tanked is a sign of failure. Polled Dexter cattle were a ruse, are a ruse, and cannot compete with the foundation horned cattle, and they are failing abysmally with the established breeds. Lose - Lose
Polled breeders are consistently dropping out at every opportunity.
It IS a shame that newbies are NOT told the truth. I consider it unethical for an owner not to tell a potential buyer that polled cattle descend from a grade bull.
|
|
|
Post by cascade on Oct 29, 2019 3:20:21 GMT
ALL Dexters come from non-Dexters.
ALL Dexters have holes on their distant pedigrees.
Saltaire Platinum is the purest of all Dexters, verified twice via DNA testing.
Saltaire Platinum has no other breeds listed on his pedigree records, and that is verified via DNA testing.
Saltaire Platinum meets every word of the 1890 original Irish Dexter Breed Standard.
Saltaire Platinum inherited his poll gene from his very pure polled Dexter Grandmother, Godstone Esmeralda, who descends from 1890's foundation Poll Dexters.
Most polled Dexter calves today don't even show Saltaire Platinum on their 5 generation pedigree. Saltaire Platinum is just another old distant forgotten Dexter fading into the past.
I can post evidence of all my facts.
|
|
|
Post by cddexter on Oct 29, 2019 16:58:59 GMT
Judy I truly don't understand.
Think of the split. You went on and on and on...and on...claiming the Board was trying to take over the ADCA. You absolutely refused to acknowledge the Board IS the ADCA. Instead you defended Rosemary to all comers, making her the center of the universe instead of merely a self-aggrandizing employee. (Well, time proved the rest of us right, didn't it). I credit you personally as being responsible for the split solely because of your relentless, vitriolic attacks. If you hadn't been so *******!!!!!VOCERIFEROUS****!!!! as you were, the whole thing would likely have been resolved without much of the acrimony and heat.
Remember when you did the same thing with Lucifer (those boards are now defunct so no one can go back and read the posts), going so far as to phone new members and warn them their new beautiful Dexter of whom they were so proud was just a grade animal. Over and over. Relentless again.
Poor old Plat is just another example.
Now here you are accusing Kirk of the very style you perfected.
Pretty funny.
cheers, c.
|
|
|
Post by jamshundred on Oct 31, 2019 16:24:13 GMT
Oh bullPoo! Whatever it is you are saying. ... you understand exactly why you are saying it.
You mean the split I was EXACTLY correct about? THAT one? The Board. . .. . DID. . .. . . take over ADCA. They changed the legal documents and filings WITHOUT a vote of the membership and in doing so, they removed EVERY right of the members. EVERY single one. As I recall, you were assigned to work on new bylaws. . . . and then they ignored you completely. You can correct me if the gossip and your comments at the time gave me an erroneous impression, but I am confident YOU would not have permitted them to take over the association and turn it into an oligarchy ( like Russia) if you actually had a voice in it. I NEVER defended Rosemary to ALL comers. YOU lie and distort Carol. I said the members had the authority to VOTE her out as Secretary/Treasurer, not a rogue board of Directors. You WISH I was responsible so that your own participation gets white-washed. I can show you posts that still exist where I warned the rogue board that there was a fracture coming. I was clear at day. If I was so damn connected, how come I was not included in the planning or have any knowledge of PDCA? ? Whereas, YOU were always aligned with the rogue faction.
AS I do in ALL phases of my life and opinions. . . . . . . I advocate for what is RIGHT ! ! What was forced on ADCA member was NOT right.
PS. .. . why are you starting this again? Everything I ever did and said has been proven correct.
NO. .. .Carol. They are NOT defunct. The only defunct board was Dakodan, and it had little of importance on it, ( I copied lots of it) and didn't last long. The two main boards and all the posts are still out there. AND it was NOT me. . . . who first railed on Lucifer. It was FRED CHESTERLEY. It was from Fred that I first heard of issues with Lucifer. Fred, YOUR friend. FRED CHESTERLEY told me of his concerns of the bull born in Canada, and imported to the US to make RED. He detailed very specifically the behavior of that bull, and YOU know he was right. YOU know very well, that bull should never have been used for breeding in this breed. It was YOU Carol, who advised us of Lucifer's temperament. Here, I have to have one of your comments saved on my computer:
Still out there Carol! Why you bringing this stuff up now? Is there something you want "out there" but you don't want to get YOUR hands dirty?
Poor old Plat. A bull you totally misrepresented to the leadership and the members. YOU . . . . . . who claim considerable knowledge and experience. . . . . .world traveler of Dexter herds. . . . . .YOU knew about Lucifer and his sire. YOU informed us. The posts are still out there. HOW COME you didn't tell the truth on Platinum? It was readily available. I was a novice researcher of Dexter cattle when *I* discovered it. YOU were the top dog of knowledge. Yep. You buried your bone didn't you?
If so, there's a BIG difference. I have strict standards. I tell the truth. I am faithfully adherent to transparency and full disclosure of information. ( Of which you seem to have a problem). If I have an opinion or theory, I say so. Kirk does not. He presents theory as fact. He, a non-educated researcher, tried to make new science with theory, not with proof. Big difference.
No, just typical. But I am curious of the motive.
|
|
|
Post by cddexter on Oct 31, 2019 20:51:17 GMT
get a life. c.
|
|
|
Post by jamshundred on Nov 1, 2019 1:08:46 GMT
That is so damn funny! You started it......I finished it. Left you speechless. LMAO.
|
|
|
Post by cascade on Nov 1, 2019 1:44:19 GMT
Judy, you never mentioned anything about Platinum's pedigree for more than 15 years after he was imported.
Platinum may have some old holes on his distant pedigree, but ALL Dexters have old holes on their pedigrees.
The holes on Platinum's pedigree could easily be unregistered purebred Dexters. There is no record of any non-Dexters on Platinum's pedigree, and that's confirmed by DNA testing.
PS. I was a professional degreed information analyst for 30 years and also taught that at University. I also studied biology and genetics.
If you want to challenge any specific thing I have stated, let me know and I'll provide you with the facts and the analysis for that item.
|
|
|
Post by cddexter on Nov 1, 2019 16:29:29 GMT
not speechless. just more of your same old bs, not worth responding to. Your version of things, deciding for others what their motivation is/was, way off base, with your version of reality, also way off base. Personal attacks, ad nauseam. Sometimes you truly are a waste of oxygen. cheers, c.
|
|
|
Post by jamshundred on Nov 1, 2019 17:26:53 GMT
Still. ..LMAO. Is that the best you can do? YOU came out. . . .. . . personally attacked ME . You have just resorted to the week-ass effort known through generations as "the pot calling the kettle black". Ho-Hum.
Just a reminder from Carol and Judy: Lucifer was shot dead because of a nasty temper tantrum. Lucifer's father by Carol's own words was also temperament challenged. A son of Lucifer was slaughtered because he went after his owner, an ADCA Director. A grandson of Lucifer was slaughtered because he went after an ADCA Director. A grandson of Lucifer was slaughtered because he went after the brother of an ADCA Director. A Lucifer grandson was slaughtered because he was the most loco animal I've ever witnessed, and he went after me. Two other Lucifer great-grandsons were slaughtered because they went after their owners. There are many others.
THIS issue needs to be addressed by the Dexter associations. . . . .. and their members need to be advised and alerted. I believe they have a fiduciary responsibility to their membership.
There . .. . . I did it again!
|
|
|
Post by cascade on Nov 1, 2019 19:44:05 GMT
ALL Dexters and ALL cattle (and all dogs and all horses) have terrifically mean animals in their distant backgrounds.
Having a poorly behaved animal on a distant pedigree is meaningless.
Behavior is influenced by a very large set of genetics in certain combinations and those combinations fall apart within a generation or two.
A son CAN inherit SOME of his own father's behavior, but a great-great-grandson can NOT inherit a great-great-grandfather's behavior. The combinations of genes involved in behavior are completely scrambled and blended and partially lost within a generation or two and completely lost within 3 or 4 generations.
Single genes can flow down through countless generations, but genetic combinations can't flow down through generations unless most all the animals involved have the same combinations.
I have one blue eye gene, and that gene flowed down from just one particular great great grandparent. Single genes can stay intact through generations, but complex polygenetics (like behavioral genetics) can't stay intact for more than a generation or two. It's impossible for me to inherit a specific great-great-grandparent's behavior.
|
|
|
Post by jamshundred on Nov 2, 2019 9:27:57 GMT
Kirk, your statement this cannot be genetic fact is reckless, when you seemingly have no knowledge, experience, or frame of reference to this behavior issue. If you ever saw the “loco” behavior when one of these animals flip out you would realize there is something off. You are posing your half-baked theories again, and If...by denying reality....a single person reading here becomes careless and is injured, you have erred.
We see many traits carry non-expressed for many generations, red and dun color being the most recognized examples. There is much that is as yet researched or known regarding genetics, and you dare to suggest to me YOU have all the knowledge and experience to declare a perverted gene for temperament cannot carry without being expressed? It is dangerous speculation for I have witnessed it, and I suspect from my own experiences there are many un-reported cases because of lack of information in the member domain.
You can blah, blah, blah as much as you wish on your other silly assertions, but THIS issue is not one of them for it puts life and limb of the unsuspecting at risk and your addled suppositions on this give ME a temperament issue!! So STFU when you absolutely do not know what you are talking about and it could get someone killed!
|
|
|
Post by cascade on Nov 3, 2019 3:01:27 GMT
I know how hard it is to have simple myths destroyed by complex science. I've raised thousands of head of livestock including thousands of intact males including nearly 200 intact Dexter bulls and I've studied and experimented with genetics carefully for 50 years. There is no "mean gene".... genetics aren't that simple. Behavior is polygenic, which means that many different genes in combination, add up to genetic traits. Expression of some traits is dictated by single genes. Such traits are called qualitative or monogenic traits. On the other hand, polygenic traits are traits that are controlled by many genes. Some common examples of polygenic traits are height, behavior, hair color/shading. Nearly 150 genes at 150 different genetic loci, affect the height of an animal. In animals, behavioral characteristics are controlled by multiple genes. Each gene makes a very small contribution to the overall behavior expressed by the individual. (Not to mention environmental factors). Polygenic characters are also known as minor gene characters, because the effect of each gene involved in a particular trait is tiny. The height or behavior of an animal is controlled by a large number of various genes, In general, polygenic traits are controlled by additive gene action. The hereditary transmission of polygenic traits is low over more than one or two generations because complex genetic combinations can't be passed down from an ancestor to its descendents. You can't attribute the behaviour of an animal back to a single ancestor generations ago. Meosis and genetic recombination don't allow polygenic traits, like behavior, to flow down through the generations from a specific ancestor down to distant descendants. www.chegg.com/homework-help/definitions/polygenic-traits-14
|
|
|
Post by jamshundred on Nov 5, 2019 18:18:15 GMT
Bull, Kirk! YOU don't know that! Science does NOT know that! Science cannot tell YOU or ME why dairy bulls are so much more dangerous, (killers actually) then beef bulls. Science cannot find the polled gene, so how in the devil (Lucifer) do YOU know they have found ALL the answers to temperament. I believe there IS a MEAN GENE in the Lucifer line. Something mutated . . perhaps by the genetic soup of his pedigree, the truth of which was NEVER recorded, nor even discussed. ONLY, Mrs. Rutherford had the courage to state, ( and in her book if you wish a reference) that what was recorded was not all there was to know.
We have no idea what happens when there are crosses. Good example are the questions which surround polled/horned when Zebu are introduced in a cross.
There are far too many documented cases related to Lucifer offspring. FAR TOO MANY too ignore. Let me say it again. Until you know what you are talking about on this issue, don't talk. Do something really worthwhile and research and find out why so many Lucifer descendants are problematic. And it is not only the males! ! It seems to be present in the females, but in a different type of aggression.
|
|