Post by jamshundred on Feb 25, 2020 16:13:07 GMT
Kirk Cascade
Admin · February 9 at 5:37 PM
The classic-framed British White cattle breed (and the sister "White Park" breed) is a very nice rare compact dual-purpose breed that deserves preservation. These come in a wide range of sizes including very compact.
This great breed (pictured) has a trademark color, identifying the breed. It's harmful to this fine old heritage breed to steal its trademark color and use it on other breeds and crossbreeds. It also hurts all involved heritage breeds because it causes breed confusion.
If you like this color pattern, then get some purebred compact classic-framed British White/White Park Cattle and don't mix them with other breeds. Crossing heritage breeds is the #1 most harmful thing you can do to both breeds.
PS. The new "White Dexter" crossbred-breed is a dumb idea. The classic-framed purebred British White/White Park Cattle breed already has those exact same features. No need to make a new breed.
Stephanie Ann Finally something I agree with. White dexter is the same as designer dogs with jacked up priced
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Kirk Cascade Like all cattle, the British White breed comes in a variety of sizes. The "classic" size is the same size as most compact Dexters. Here is a classic British White
Nina Ratto Oh these are amazing I would love to own them
Kirk Cascade I'm happy to have traditional Red or Black Dexters because they hide mud and poop stains better. A white cow would be like having white carpet... A big mistake on my muddy farm.
Rocking Star Ranch Kirk Cascade that's good stuff! You have never been one to shy from controversy. You are echoing the same things I've been thinking with the "white Dexter." It's a White Park is exactly what I think when I see a picture of a the cross every time. To each his own, but the color is what sets the White Park apart and makes it distinctive.
Monica Waltho White park is a separate British breed which have horns . More rangy but same colouring.
Elaine LePain White park do not have the black nose
Monica Waltho Think they do
Troy Rucker British White are not the same as White Parks please get your facts straight. I own Registered White Park. British Whites are a different breed here in the USA.
Kirk Cascade "There are relatively small numbers of the White Park cattle in the United States, where they are commonly known as the Ancient White Park in order to distinguish them from the American White Park, which is a population of the British White breed."
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Park_cattle
Kirk Cascade Troy Rucker do you have "Ancient White Parks"?
Cyder Bay Farm I think the main idea here is not to ruin the true dexter breed by crossing the with these white breeds. I agree fully there are no white Dexter's and there should not be.
Keep both breeds pure.
Duncan MacIntyre In over thirty years attending Rare Breed sales in UK I have NEVER seen such a thing as a compact British White.
Kirk Cascade They are in America
www.minibritishwhitecattle.com/.../classic-british...
Classic British White Heifers For Sale
MINIBRITISHWHITECATTLE.COM
Jason Bennett Duncan MacIntyre then you haven't seen many British whites!!
Monica Waltho Jason Bennett sorry Jason I have seen plenty of British Whites and are not Dexter size in uk any way . Can't be feeding them properly😉😂
Kirk Cascade In America in the 1940's and 1950's most beefy breeds of cattle were selected for very compact frames. Some people call those compact frames "Classic Frames"
Jason Bennett Monica Waltho I know their not dexter size' that's what I'm saying, my British white cows weigh between 550 and 700 kgs .
Kirk Cascade In the 1940's and 1950"s most British breeds in the US were selected to be "belt buckle high". But In the 1970's - 1990's they selected toward much larger sizes.
Some people maintained those shorter sizes. Here is a typical 1950's Angus.
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Candy King Kirk Cascade I’m sure British White and White Parks are different breeds one having horns and the other not.
Jason Bennett Candy King yes they are' we have British whites, they are polled and more docile the the horned white parks.... also whites can have a spotted coat
Nico Steintjes are the spotted called the specle park?
Kirk Cascade In America, they have "American White Parks" that are primarily polled and are like the British Whites, and they also have "Ancient White Parks" that are horned like the UK White Parks.
Jason Bennett Nico Steintjes my friend has speckle parks, the were bred by using shorthorn Angus and British whites
Silver Maple Dexters Kirk Cascade in my America we also have British Whites....just a few miles up the road from me. britishcattle.com/WordPress/ But I do like your initial point and it is applicable to more than just "white" and Dexters.
Cyder Bay Farm And again British white or white park ...is not the point. The point is crossing these breeds with the dexter breed.
Create a unregistered halfbreed animal....not a pure bred white dexter.
So why are they being registered as a dexter then? Why ruin bo…See More
Duncan MacIntyre According to the UK Rare Breeds Survival Trust British White cattle Well balanced, polled beef animal.
They are a medium sized breed, with cows usually weighing 550-700kg and bulls 900-1100kg.
Mainly white in colour with black (or red) points on the muzzle, the ears, the feet and the teats. …See More
Kirk Cascade In America in the 1940s and 1950's and 1960's most all UK breeds were selected for compact frames. They aren't mutts, they are purebred but selected to be more compact. Angus, Herefords, Shorthorn, and others were selected to be compact. Some people have maintained these "classic" sizes
Kirk Cascade Another great dual-purpose breed with a trademark color pattern is Belted Galloway. They come in compact sizes. It would be unnecessarily confusing and harmful to make a breed called "Belted Dexters" ... don't do it.
H
Duncan MacIntyre These are NOT belted galloways at all. Just borrowed the skin colour.. We are going to see breeds of cattle and dogs destroyed by those intent of the value of cute.
Rocking Star Ranch Duncan MacIntyre I know of a few people that sell the Galloway cattle. Registration is not even desired, only the color
Kim Cary Gouldie Most breeds of every animal originated from crossing of breeds that already exist. I am certain that the breeders at the time felt the same way.
Kirk Cascade True, nothing wrong with that as those old timers blended old breeds to create a new unique breed with unique features with a new unique name.
White Dexters have the same traits as Classic-Framed British White Cattle, and they used the name "Dexter" instead of developing a unique name.…See More
Randy Fulcher Almost as dumb as crossing dexters with angus to get polled dexters?
Kirk Cascade The original 1890 Irish Dexter Breed standard allowed for poll Dexters. The standard says nothing about horns. Today's poll Dexters trace back to "Harley Poll" in 1894 in the original Irish Dexter Herdbooks.
Kirk Cascade Today's poll Dexters also trace back to Spalpeen, a purebred show-winning polled Dexter born in 1912.
Nicole Zurcher All breeds had to be created at some time. White Dexters are not being registered in the adca or the pdca, they have their own registry. I understand that there are not that many Dexters and if they're crossed with something you're losing the pure line…See More
Kirk Cascade It's a shame that they stole the "Dexter" name. It's a shame that they stole the exact trademark color and conformation of an existing breed (classic British White). If they had used a unique name and come up with a unique breed, then more power to them.
Nicole Zurcher Kirk Cascade but their goal is for them to be genetically Dexter after many many generations, that's why you can't just breed to a white park bull and get on the registry. What would you call them? Their goal is for them to have all the same traits as …See More
Rex Williams Well said !!
Katrina Blain I don't see the difference if the animals aren't registered and/or are raised for beef rather than used in a breeding program . They don't add to or take from numbers as they aren't even on the registration radar.
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Kirk Cascade White Dexters are being advertised as "registered white Dexters" because the creators created a new basement registry for them, further adding to breed confusion.
Katrina Blain Kirk Cascade I can absolutely understand why that is bothersome, and while they are cute I don't endorse or encourage that practice.
I just don't see crossbreeding as an issue when it isn't detracting from registered numbers.
Nancy Bliss You are entitled to your opinion But I dont think you should call others ideas "dumb". After all they are entitled to THEIR opinion also.
Kirk Cascade I agree that they are welcome to their opinion. They are also welcome to share their opinion here. Perhaps they can explain why they created a new breed that is exactly like an existing old heritage breed, and perhaps they can explain why they stole the Dexter name instead of developing a unique name. I'd like to hear their opinion.
Nancy Bliss Well I will counter that statement They didnt steal anything. They are a cross between a White Park and a Dexter. Hence... White Dexter. Most everyone knows that reg Dexters dont come in white. And why not cross two great breeds and make a hybrid of them? They are awesome. I just dislike when others use terms like DUMB. It makes me value their opinion a lot less.
Kirk Cascade But the hybrid of the two is exactly like the the white parent. What does the hybrid have that the white parent doesn't already have?
The result of this hybrid breeding is to simply end up with the white parent, but with the name "Dexter" tacked on.…See More
Nancy Bliss Kirk Cascade Maybe. but I guess unless you went to meet some you might not get it anyway. They are beautiful and personable and intellegent and more. You are free to sit there and judge. I love them. Others love them. So tell me what it is you hate about them?
Kirk Cascade They are killing the original white parent breed that was already beautiful and personable and intelligent and more.
The white parent breed is a very nice breed that needs breeders to be preserving it. …See More
Greg Baker Nancy Bliss But I have potential buyers in my area wanting to buy “Dexters” because they want a heritage breed and then want to know where to get a white one. Which is not a heritage breed.
Nancy Bliss Greg Baker ok, but cant they have both too? I dont see the issue. Just tell them the whites arent heritage and let them decide.
Anita Praisler Agreed
Kirk Cascade If I spent years creating a new compact "Red & White Dexter Breed" that looks like this, I hope someone will tell me I was being stupid since there already is a breed exactly like this. Do we really need a "Red&White Dexter" breed? And imagine the da…See More
Kathleen Vire Kirk Cascade now its designer breed bovine are not canine. please keep heritage, heritage
Darlene Nowak Thank you Kirk! I am so disappointed that the crossbred white Dexter is being marketed as a Dexter at all. If you are raising a Heritage breed, it is my opinion that staying as close to the the breed was in 1775, is the goal.
Deana Johnson whitedexter.com
If anyone would care to read the full history of the White Dexter breed rather than listening to this, it’s fully available on the website. The only crossbred was over 20 years ago and bred to registered ADCA and PDCA Dexters since then. Stating anything other than that is untrue.
White Dexter Cattle Sales and Cattle Registration|White Dexter
WHITEDEXTER.COM
Catherine Hall Dal Nogare I find a lot of what the White Dexter people do offensive. Someone posts they are looking for a bull on DCE and up pops White Dexters web site. And names to contact. They need to quit marketing on Dexter pages. DCE usually takes the posts down. If they have such a great breed why do they need to move in on Dexter pages. If you get a White bull it will take you years to get a true breeding herd.
Kimberly Jepsen and the admin of the WD page won't allow people to post animals for sale there either. Not even when it was safe to do so before FB shut down animal sales. I always thought that was odd.
Kirk Cascade Deana Johnson
There are many American White Park/British Whites that are compact, and dual purpose. Please give us a detail list of traits that the newly created "White Dexter Breed" always has, that can NEVER be found in the old heritage White breed(s).…See More
Deana Johnson Kirk Cascade for one, you will not see White Dexter breeders spreading misinformation about you on their pages and then asking you to defend what cattle you raise. Why are you so hostile towards them? Let people raise what they want. Their pedigrees are documented so no explanation should be necessary as to why they are called Dexters.
Catherine Hall Dal Nogare Why not Irish Whites
Catherine Hall Dal Nogare Some breed associations allow registration of animals after a number of generations. I'm fine with that. As a result I believe there are some White Park pattern Jerseys and Aberdeen. I'm fine with that and think if the breed society is OK with it it's fine. I know some have split over similar controversies. I'm personally surprised that PDCA hasn't accepted the Whites. It would boost their registry.
Deana Johnson Catherine Hall Dal Nogare why would you be ok with other breeds allowing registration after a number of generations but not the Dexters? Just curious.
Catherine Hall Dal Nogare I didn't say that at all. I suggested that some do accept appendix registries and allow eventual acceptance. That's OK with me. But it doesn't mean I want my animals on that registry. It means there is an agreement on a standard and they are willing to work with it. That is their right.
Nico Steintjes A society that easily accept upgraded Dexters won't be longer taken seriously by other societys.
Catherine Hall Dal Nogare I agree but there is not much to differentiate the two registries and that might do it. Then the registries, PDCA and White Dxxxxxs would be in direct competition and I'd be fine with that.
Quakie Lane Farms Kirk Cascade Bravo! I was going to post something very similar. I think we sometimes forget as Dexter owners and breeders that the Dexter is a HERITAGE breed and we have a responsibility as caretakers and custodians of the breed to preserve the true he…See More
Joanie Storck Quakie Lane Farms May I input something in your conversation? There was only one registry for the American Dexter cattle, for almost 50 years. Now there are three. One of the two main reasons for the split of the registry was the introduction of the polled animals into a horned breed registry, that did not allow upgraded cattle.
A very dedicated group of dexter lovers established the Legacy registry to preserve the heritage bloodlines. Soooo there are registries for everyones desires and preferences.... why can’t we all be satisfied with the ability to freely choose what we want to raise, without trying to destroy each others reputations?
Quakie Lane Farms Joanie Storck I hope that is not how I came across. I have no desire to destroy anyone's reputation. I just think we sometimes forget that we are dealing with a heritage breed that is already in danger of becoming extinct. It's easy to do. Even I need reminding. I think we also allow society to dictate what the breed should be rather than what it is intended to be. We've seen it happen with dogs. Before you know it, the breed no longer resembles the original standard and people no longer desire to have the breed because they are riddled with defects, etc. I would hate to see that happen to the Dexter breed of cattle. Thank goodness for genetic testing. However, the genetic testing and registration of an animal does not guarantee a quality animal that meets the standards.
Catherine Hall Dal Nogare I don't see the PDCA split as having anything to do with polled animals. The breeders in this area were swayed in the direction of PDCA and they all seem to have some polled animals in their herds. It was a split about people. You can't expect Dexter registries to accept White Dexters as Dexters because you want them too. Horn and polled Dexters are accepted on most continents. It's old news.
Lennie Noblin I guess all of your dexters are all horned and from one of the oldest original lines!!
Greg Baker Quakie Lane Farms Totally agree. That’s why we got started with Dexters. HERITAGE BREED
Kimberly Jepsen My biggest issue with WD's is this: In the same sentence WD breeders will say they are "their own breed" and that they are "Dexters". They can't really be both. Either they are White Dexters with their own breed/registry or they aren't. Crossbreeding to obtain certain traits isn't offensive IMO. To each their own but the name was chosen to be intentionally misleading that I find offensive.
Joanie Storck Kimberly Jepsen I find it interesting that we are discussing AGAIN why they are called White Dexters. They are white and they are a full dexter upgrade. May I ask; when will dexter breeders quit calling their dexters Irish Dexters? How many generations are we away from the cattle that roamed the hills in Ireland? Was there ever a Irish registry?
All this petty bickering is negative toward ALL Dexter cattle.
Lets just let everyone raise the cattle that make them happy...quit trying to destroy the other peoples dreams and visions.
Lennie Noblin I think that they are called "White Dexter" mainly because of folks like the one that started this ridiculous post that refuse to recognize them as a legitimate Dexter in just a new color--sort of like a legitimate Dexter--just polled!!
Teresa Hopper Coggins To each his own and if it sells more Dexters , why not? Dexters are and will always be the seed stock. Are we going to create a problem every time someone crossed breeds? I ask because round here people are crossing Jerseys with Dexters and calling the…See More
Mark Traub Kirk I agree with you 100% if you cross-breeds or try to upgrade a heritage breed it is confusing for you breeders and bad for the breed. I am bald to see you have come to the conclusion that letting Angus polled, and Jersey upgrade into the US herd book was bad for the Dexter breed and caused all kinds of confusion in the breed. I have proof to the confusion and that is having 3 registries for one Breed in the US. I would not loss sleep over white, pink or any other Dexter type when we can not come to one stand resister in the US for the current herd. Their is a trail that shows this upgrade in the us herd book from the beginning. I do not want to talk Biology. I want to talk facts and the facts are or herd book shows these upgrade cattle in the US herd book. If you do want to talk genes why do we now have to red genes in the herd when red was very rare in the 1900"s. This is the last time I will post on this subject. I love the breed and I will do all I can to make it better.
Mark Traub How many likes can I get? If I can get 100 Iikes I will raffle off a one year old steer. This is all in fun. If you can not communicate your ideas in fun why do it and why be a part of a group that does not allow ideas to think on to be shared.
Ryan Thatcher Mark Traub this This right here is very close to my stance on the subject. I commend the WDCA as they are not trying to say the white gene miraculously appeared in the Dexter.
Kirk Cascade Mark Traub
The registered purebred Dexter breed as we know it was founded in 1890 by the Royal Dublin Society with this breed standard for 100% of Dexters:…See More
Kirk Cascade Ryan Thatcher
Godstone Esmeralda, a primary source of the poll gene in Dexters, descends from 1894 foundation Dexter "Harley Poll". None of Esmeralda's parents nor grandparents, nor great grandparents, nor great great grandparents have photo"s nor records of horns.
Kirk Cascade Godstone Esmeralda (and most all of today's poll Dexters) also descend from Spalpeen, a polled 1912 Dexter Bull
Stephanie Ann
Stephanie Ann My only irritation is that they try to market that cross as novel as ask 4x what it’s worth. Just a money grab. Same reason designer mutts are 4x the cost of whatever breed the sire and dam is.
It’s just to market to those amateur hobbyists who ju…See More
Nicole Zurcher Stephanie Ann this is something I can agree with! I have no problem with the creation of White Dexters, nor the fact that they're called White Dexters, but if I would have done it I would have focused on other characteristics as well alongside the whit…See More
Frith Dexters With respect in the UK, the White Park cattle are a rare horned breed & the British white are polled. The only similarities are in the coat markings
Kirk Cascade British White and White Park breeds were one breed until about 1920-1940 when the breed started to split into two separte breeds, one polled and one horned.
"In 1697, the British White breed originated in Whalley Abbey, Lancashire. This herd is said t…See More
British White | Cattle Exchange
CATTLE-EXCHANGE.DROVERS.COM
Frith Dexters Kirk Cascade I bow to your superior historical knowledge, As I understand it, all domestic cattle are descended from the Auroch, so all breeds that developed over the centuries were crossbred by man to highlight desirable traits, Many breeds shared her…See More
Joanie Storck I am impressed that Kirk has researched the White breeds, now maybe he would admit that his original post was misleading in regards to the size of the white breed he started this post with. The breed standards;
British Whites:
Bulls 1800-2300 lbs, cow…See More
Kirk Cascade All breeds of cattle have various sizes within the purebreed
There are already purebred compact versions of the white breed
Bonnie Ann Jensen Joanie Storck kirk is correct there are classic sizes in the British whites, my British white is the same size as my dexter s. Way better looking. Not a person who comes to see them doesn't put the British white first. I guess the job of …See More
Mark Wiseman How about White like Dexters or Miniature white cattle, as they are definitely not Dexter cattle.
Nicole Zurcher Mark Wiseman but the goal is to breed them back again and again, retaining the white gene, making them 99.99% Dexter...
Mark Wiseman Nicole, how can you start with DNA that is not Dexter and attempt to genetically engineer a white Dexter? As it states in the breed standard, the colour is black, brown and dun. Until the representative breed standard accepts the change, it is not a De…See More
Joanie Storck I suppose this discussion would be legitimate IF, that is IF someone were trying to register a White Dexter in any of the other three registries.
Can we please just respect each persons free choice to breed what they want?
Kirk Cascade Joanie Storck
If someone created their own line of White Dexters from scratch and created another new White Dexter registry, and advertised their "registered White Dexters" for sale on your White Dexter pages,…See More
Joanie Storck Kirk Cascade we do have a trademarked name/registry.
Thank you for your concern. We would deal with it in a professional manner. …See More
Bonnie Ann Jensen Thing about the white dexter is it's just a color breed. The bad thing is they won't let any new blood into it. Bad idea way to small of a gene pool. Kinda like pintos, they won't last long. Even British White let new blood in.
Joanie Storck Bonnie Ann Jensen Your statement is oxymoron. We won’t let any new blood in? The White Park genetics is NEW. If a small gene pool is going to destroy us then the Dexter breed is doing a “bad thing” (they don’t allow outside bloodlines in their regist…See More
Nicole Zurcher Bonnie Ann Jensen honestly they let a LOT of new blood in! Any registered Dexter can be used. If they let any "new white blood" in, it defeats their purpose of increasing the Dexter percentage and will increase the amount of non-dexters in the bloodline. As I understand it, they intend them to be an upgrade to the Dexter breed and not it's own breed.
Kirk Cascade For those who missed the point. The point is that there already are purebred registered original heritage White Cattle avaiable in compact sizes. If you want white, then get the real thing.
Jenna Johnson who's post is this Kirk?
Pavonne Camerer Are you familiar with the terms FULLBLOOD and PUREBRED? These denotations are used both in the cattle and goat industries. A Fullblood is an animal that contains no outside breeding. A Purebred is on that has been upgraded to either 7/8 or 15/16 of the Fullblood. In boer goats, the registry recognizes and registers both Fullblood and Purebred boers. Likewise in some cattle registries. With the dexter breed originating from a combination of other breeds in Ireland, and possibly being upgraded with polled genetics, wouldn't almost all dexters in the U S now be purebreds? If so, then the White Dexter, after over ten years of breeding to ADCA cows would be 15/16 dexter, or Purebred. Regardless of anyone's opinion on the name White Dexter, or the wisdom of breeding the white color pattern into the dexter breed....... they are a purebred dexter by definition and the breed is popular and judged by their popularity, here to stay.
Jane Jackson Pavonne Camerer well said. We have pure and fullblood in the Dorper sheep industry too. You explain it much. Better than I. But I fully agree. My hope is that someday they will be recognized in other Dexter registries. But we must be true in breeding to gain their respect.
Bonnie Ann Jensen Pavonne Camerer I get what Kirk Cascade is saying. It does seem like they're just trying to duplicate the British white. Having both British white and Dexter's , I will say this the white Dexter's will never replace the British white.…See More
Pavonne Camerer Kirk Cascade To answer your question. Mathematically yes accoding to the definition of purebred and full blood that the livestock industry uses. Kirk, you missed my point. The term purebred denotes a 15/16 or a 7/8 genetic makeup. It is a term use…See More
Pavonne Camerer Kirk Cascade Only ONE White Park bull was used to introduce the color pattern into the dexter breed. EVERY subsequent breeding used ADCA and PDCA registered dexters. You are entitled to your opinion, but please keep the facts straight.
Kirk Cascade Pavonne Camerer
The point of "pure-breeding" is to create animals that breed true for their breed-defining traits. It's not just a paper game of how the animal looks on paper. …See More
Mark Traub The polled Dexter breed is a great example of what Kirk is referring to in this post. I am glad Kirk is coming on board that Dexter's were a horned breed and an UPGRADE program gave as a new Breed call POLLED DEXTER just like WHITE DEXTER. In the pass…See More
Nicole Zurcher Mark Traub I've not been in this group long, but long enough to know how worked up Kirk gets about the exact opposite of what you just said. Maybe you need a different example.
Pavonne Camerer This discussion would be endless so I will bow out. I am more interested in facts than opinion. The truth is that we love our White Dexters and have had the most phenominal year with our cattle because of them. We have met the most wonderful people,…See More
Kirk Cascade So it turns out that the "White Dexter" folks would do anything for money, including harming the Dexter Breed and harming the White Park/British White Breeds.
When the hybrid "White Dexter" fad burns out and the basement registry fails there will be a lot of folks stuck with useless papers and over-priced dead-end animals that aren't Dexters and aren't accepted by any real Dexter registries.
Troy Rucker They are making more Money than you are on their “White Dexters” so I don’t think they care about your opinion. Market rules supply chain get over it.
Kirk Cascade They obviously care a great deal about my opinion or they would not be posting here.
Many of us here are helping to preserve heritage Dexters for future generations, while others will happily destroy the breed for a buck.…See More
Joanie Storck Kirk Cascade we keep coming on YOUR page, (that you control what comments you delete) because you keep repeating the same rhetoric over and over again, like Sesame Street. Apparently you think people are too immature to make their own decisions witho…See More
Rick Waechter White Dexters? Never heard of them until I read this post.
Yeah, they won’t even be noticed.
Pavonne Camerer My ADCA polled red dexter cow loves her white baby.
Rick Waechter Pavonne Camerer note that the ADCA registered red cow, will probably not recognize your hybrid calf.
No such thing as a white Dexter.
You should look at the CDCA Breed standards, very precise descriptions.
Pavonne Camerer Rick Waechter The name White Dexter is a trademarked name that denotes a new breed. Our ADCA cows love their white calves.
Rick Waechter
Rick Waechter Pavonne Camerer don’t give a rats foot if it’s trademark or not. Does the ADCA recognize this white park Dexter hybrid? Probably not.
ANY cow looks after their calves regardless of colour. …See More
Pavonne Camerer Rick Waechter I was responding to your comment that our ADCA registered red cow would not recognize her calf.
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Rick Waechter Pavonne Camerer I am talking about the organization not the cow.
Hey I will breed a highland with a Dexter and call it a....Hexter.
Rick Waechter Pavonne Camerer it’s a hybrid or a cross. Period. Enjoy.
Joanie Storck Rick Waechter There already is a HighDex breeding group. You are too late.
Rick Waechter Joanie Storck there is no recognized highdex breed. Their might be a group but it’s not an official breed.
Joanie Storck Rick Waechter I did not say it was a breed.
Pavonne Camerer Kirk Cascade You are the one who started this fuss, not any white dexter people. We have ADCA dexter cows as well and we love our dexters. We have not posted any of our whites on your group page and would not have commented on this thread had all the facts been correct. If you don't want a fight, don't start one.
Linda J Holloway Wow , quite the commentary and all over color. I think Pavonne Camerer has it right on this one.
I agree the about the politics in ADCA and why another registry would succeed.
All it takes is a computer and many registries are an off shoot from another .
All about choice , still America so you can join or stay w the registry you choose.
Kirk Cascade Other people over the years have created fad-chasing Dexter cross breeds and created their own registries. Those basement registries always fail and those fad animals are lost and the cross breed dies out when the fad burns out.
Meanwhile, the ADCA and its predecessor has been here registering True Dexters for a century.
In another century from now, ADCA registered Dexters will still be here helping families.
ADCA registered Dexters trace back to the 1800's in Ireland and follow the breed standard that considered white to be a serious flaw.
Real Dexter Breeders have spent 130 years breeding and culling excess white OUT of Dexters.
White = Not a Dexter
and that's been true since at least 1890
Stephanie Ann Why should you care what crosses others have ?
Why would quarter horse people care what paint breeders do even though quarter horse blood is in paints ?
Kirk Cascade White Dexters are being marketed as purebred Dexters that are colored white. They stole the Dexter name. Paint breeders didn't steal the Quarter Horse name.
This photo is from the White Dexter website where they claim that White Dexters are the old …See More
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Image may contain: outdoor, possible text that says 'White Dexter Cattle An Old Breed with a New Color'
Kirk Cascade "The American Paint Horse is a breed of horse that combines both the conformational characteristics of a western stock horse with a pinto spotting pattern of white and dark coat colors. The American Paint Horse Association (APHA) breed registry is now…See More
Stephanie Ann Kirk Cascade let me blow ya mind. I have a registered APHA (paint) that’s mostly AQHA (quarter horse).
Sire was full AQHA, dam was 1/4 AQHA
Kirk Cascade Your "Paint" is called a "Paint" and follows the Paint rules.
It's not called a "Spotted Quarter Horse". …See More
Stephanie Ann Kirk Cascade all this worrying is gonna kill ya. Worry about something that actually matters.
Kirk Cascade Preserving heritage breeds matters a great deal. We wouldn't have Dexters today if folks from 50 years ago didn't vigorously defend and preserve Dexters for us.
Here is another breed of animal that our farm has worked tirelessly to save from near extinction ... American Guinea Hogs... Nearly extinct 16 years ago, and now thriving. …See More
Admin · February 9 at 5:37 PM
The classic-framed British White cattle breed (and the sister "White Park" breed) is a very nice rare compact dual-purpose breed that deserves preservation. These come in a wide range of sizes including very compact.
This great breed (pictured) has a trademark color, identifying the breed. It's harmful to this fine old heritage breed to steal its trademark color and use it on other breeds and crossbreeds. It also hurts all involved heritage breeds because it causes breed confusion.
If you like this color pattern, then get some purebred compact classic-framed British White/White Park Cattle and don't mix them with other breeds. Crossing heritage breeds is the #1 most harmful thing you can do to both breeds.
PS. The new "White Dexter" crossbred-breed is a dumb idea. The classic-framed purebred British White/White Park Cattle breed already has those exact same features. No need to make a new breed.
Stephanie Ann Finally something I agree with. White dexter is the same as designer dogs with jacked up priced
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Kirk Cascade Like all cattle, the British White breed comes in a variety of sizes. The "classic" size is the same size as most compact Dexters. Here is a classic British White
Nina Ratto Oh these are amazing I would love to own them
Kirk Cascade I'm happy to have traditional Red or Black Dexters because they hide mud and poop stains better. A white cow would be like having white carpet... A big mistake on my muddy farm.
Rocking Star Ranch Kirk Cascade that's good stuff! You have never been one to shy from controversy. You are echoing the same things I've been thinking with the "white Dexter." It's a White Park is exactly what I think when I see a picture of a the cross every time. To each his own, but the color is what sets the White Park apart and makes it distinctive.
Monica Waltho White park is a separate British breed which have horns . More rangy but same colouring.
Elaine LePain White park do not have the black nose
Monica Waltho Think they do
Troy Rucker British White are not the same as White Parks please get your facts straight. I own Registered White Park. British Whites are a different breed here in the USA.
Kirk Cascade "There are relatively small numbers of the White Park cattle in the United States, where they are commonly known as the Ancient White Park in order to distinguish them from the American White Park, which is a population of the British White breed."
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Park_cattle
Kirk Cascade Troy Rucker do you have "Ancient White Parks"?
Cyder Bay Farm I think the main idea here is not to ruin the true dexter breed by crossing the with these white breeds. I agree fully there are no white Dexter's and there should not be.
Keep both breeds pure.
Duncan MacIntyre In over thirty years attending Rare Breed sales in UK I have NEVER seen such a thing as a compact British White.
Kirk Cascade They are in America
www.minibritishwhitecattle.com/.../classic-british...
Classic British White Heifers For Sale
MINIBRITISHWHITECATTLE.COM
Jason Bennett Duncan MacIntyre then you haven't seen many British whites!!
Monica Waltho Jason Bennett sorry Jason I have seen plenty of British Whites and are not Dexter size in uk any way . Can't be feeding them properly😉😂
Kirk Cascade In America in the 1940's and 1950's most beefy breeds of cattle were selected for very compact frames. Some people call those compact frames "Classic Frames"
Jason Bennett Monica Waltho I know their not dexter size' that's what I'm saying, my British white cows weigh between 550 and 700 kgs .
Kirk Cascade In the 1940's and 1950"s most British breeds in the US were selected to be "belt buckle high". But In the 1970's - 1990's they selected toward much larger sizes.
Some people maintained those shorter sizes. Here is a typical 1950's Angus.
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Candy King Kirk Cascade I’m sure British White and White Parks are different breeds one having horns and the other not.
Jason Bennett Candy King yes they are' we have British whites, they are polled and more docile the the horned white parks.... also whites can have a spotted coat
Nico Steintjes are the spotted called the specle park?
Kirk Cascade In America, they have "American White Parks" that are primarily polled and are like the British Whites, and they also have "Ancient White Parks" that are horned like the UK White Parks.
Jason Bennett Nico Steintjes my friend has speckle parks, the were bred by using shorthorn Angus and British whites
Silver Maple Dexters Kirk Cascade in my America we also have British Whites....just a few miles up the road from me. britishcattle.com/WordPress/ But I do like your initial point and it is applicable to more than just "white" and Dexters.
Cyder Bay Farm And again British white or white park ...is not the point. The point is crossing these breeds with the dexter breed.
Create a unregistered halfbreed animal....not a pure bred white dexter.
So why are they being registered as a dexter then? Why ruin bo…See More
Duncan MacIntyre According to the UK Rare Breeds Survival Trust British White cattle Well balanced, polled beef animal.
They are a medium sized breed, with cows usually weighing 550-700kg and bulls 900-1100kg.
Mainly white in colour with black (or red) points on the muzzle, the ears, the feet and the teats. …See More
Kirk Cascade In America in the 1940s and 1950's and 1960's most all UK breeds were selected for compact frames. They aren't mutts, they are purebred but selected to be more compact. Angus, Herefords, Shorthorn, and others were selected to be compact. Some people have maintained these "classic" sizes
Kirk Cascade Another great dual-purpose breed with a trademark color pattern is Belted Galloway. They come in compact sizes. It would be unnecessarily confusing and harmful to make a breed called "Belted Dexters" ... don't do it.
H
Duncan MacIntyre These are NOT belted galloways at all. Just borrowed the skin colour.. We are going to see breeds of cattle and dogs destroyed by those intent of the value of cute.
Rocking Star Ranch Duncan MacIntyre I know of a few people that sell the Galloway cattle. Registration is not even desired, only the color
Kim Cary Gouldie Most breeds of every animal originated from crossing of breeds that already exist. I am certain that the breeders at the time felt the same way.
Kirk Cascade True, nothing wrong with that as those old timers blended old breeds to create a new unique breed with unique features with a new unique name.
White Dexters have the same traits as Classic-Framed British White Cattle, and they used the name "Dexter" instead of developing a unique name.…See More
Randy Fulcher Almost as dumb as crossing dexters with angus to get polled dexters?
Kirk Cascade The original 1890 Irish Dexter Breed standard allowed for poll Dexters. The standard says nothing about horns. Today's poll Dexters trace back to "Harley Poll" in 1894 in the original Irish Dexter Herdbooks.
Kirk Cascade Today's poll Dexters also trace back to Spalpeen, a purebred show-winning polled Dexter born in 1912.
Nicole Zurcher All breeds had to be created at some time. White Dexters are not being registered in the adca or the pdca, they have their own registry. I understand that there are not that many Dexters and if they're crossed with something you're losing the pure line…See More
Kirk Cascade It's a shame that they stole the "Dexter" name. It's a shame that they stole the exact trademark color and conformation of an existing breed (classic British White). If they had used a unique name and come up with a unique breed, then more power to them.
Nicole Zurcher Kirk Cascade but their goal is for them to be genetically Dexter after many many generations, that's why you can't just breed to a white park bull and get on the registry. What would you call them? Their goal is for them to have all the same traits as …See More
Rex Williams Well said !!
Katrina Blain I don't see the difference if the animals aren't registered and/or are raised for beef rather than used in a breeding program . They don't add to or take from numbers as they aren't even on the registration radar.
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Kirk Cascade White Dexters are being advertised as "registered white Dexters" because the creators created a new basement registry for them, further adding to breed confusion.
Katrina Blain Kirk Cascade I can absolutely understand why that is bothersome, and while they are cute I don't endorse or encourage that practice.
I just don't see crossbreeding as an issue when it isn't detracting from registered numbers.
Nancy Bliss You are entitled to your opinion But I dont think you should call others ideas "dumb". After all they are entitled to THEIR opinion also.
Kirk Cascade I agree that they are welcome to their opinion. They are also welcome to share their opinion here. Perhaps they can explain why they created a new breed that is exactly like an existing old heritage breed, and perhaps they can explain why they stole the Dexter name instead of developing a unique name. I'd like to hear their opinion.
Nancy Bliss Well I will counter that statement They didnt steal anything. They are a cross between a White Park and a Dexter. Hence... White Dexter. Most everyone knows that reg Dexters dont come in white. And why not cross two great breeds and make a hybrid of them? They are awesome. I just dislike when others use terms like DUMB. It makes me value their opinion a lot less.
Kirk Cascade But the hybrid of the two is exactly like the the white parent. What does the hybrid have that the white parent doesn't already have?
The result of this hybrid breeding is to simply end up with the white parent, but with the name "Dexter" tacked on.…See More
Nancy Bliss Kirk Cascade Maybe. but I guess unless you went to meet some you might not get it anyway. They are beautiful and personable and intellegent and more. You are free to sit there and judge. I love them. Others love them. So tell me what it is you hate about them?
Kirk Cascade They are killing the original white parent breed that was already beautiful and personable and intelligent and more.
The white parent breed is a very nice breed that needs breeders to be preserving it. …See More
Greg Baker Nancy Bliss But I have potential buyers in my area wanting to buy “Dexters” because they want a heritage breed and then want to know where to get a white one. Which is not a heritage breed.
Nancy Bliss Greg Baker ok, but cant they have both too? I dont see the issue. Just tell them the whites arent heritage and let them decide.
Anita Praisler Agreed
Kirk Cascade If I spent years creating a new compact "Red & White Dexter Breed" that looks like this, I hope someone will tell me I was being stupid since there already is a breed exactly like this. Do we really need a "Red&White Dexter" breed? And imagine the da…See More
Kathleen Vire Kirk Cascade now its designer breed bovine are not canine. please keep heritage, heritage
Darlene Nowak Thank you Kirk! I am so disappointed that the crossbred white Dexter is being marketed as a Dexter at all. If you are raising a Heritage breed, it is my opinion that staying as close to the the breed was in 1775, is the goal.
Deana Johnson whitedexter.com
If anyone would care to read the full history of the White Dexter breed rather than listening to this, it’s fully available on the website. The only crossbred was over 20 years ago and bred to registered ADCA and PDCA Dexters since then. Stating anything other than that is untrue.
White Dexter Cattle Sales and Cattle Registration|White Dexter
WHITEDEXTER.COM
Catherine Hall Dal Nogare I find a lot of what the White Dexter people do offensive. Someone posts they are looking for a bull on DCE and up pops White Dexters web site. And names to contact. They need to quit marketing on Dexter pages. DCE usually takes the posts down. If they have such a great breed why do they need to move in on Dexter pages. If you get a White bull it will take you years to get a true breeding herd.
Kimberly Jepsen and the admin of the WD page won't allow people to post animals for sale there either. Not even when it was safe to do so before FB shut down animal sales. I always thought that was odd.
Kirk Cascade Deana Johnson
There are many American White Park/British Whites that are compact, and dual purpose. Please give us a detail list of traits that the newly created "White Dexter Breed" always has, that can NEVER be found in the old heritage White breed(s).…See More
Deana Johnson Kirk Cascade for one, you will not see White Dexter breeders spreading misinformation about you on their pages and then asking you to defend what cattle you raise. Why are you so hostile towards them? Let people raise what they want. Their pedigrees are documented so no explanation should be necessary as to why they are called Dexters.
Catherine Hall Dal Nogare Why not Irish Whites
Catherine Hall Dal Nogare Some breed associations allow registration of animals after a number of generations. I'm fine with that. As a result I believe there are some White Park pattern Jerseys and Aberdeen. I'm fine with that and think if the breed society is OK with it it's fine. I know some have split over similar controversies. I'm personally surprised that PDCA hasn't accepted the Whites. It would boost their registry.
Deana Johnson Catherine Hall Dal Nogare why would you be ok with other breeds allowing registration after a number of generations but not the Dexters? Just curious.
Catherine Hall Dal Nogare I didn't say that at all. I suggested that some do accept appendix registries and allow eventual acceptance. That's OK with me. But it doesn't mean I want my animals on that registry. It means there is an agreement on a standard and they are willing to work with it. That is their right.
Nico Steintjes A society that easily accept upgraded Dexters won't be longer taken seriously by other societys.
Catherine Hall Dal Nogare I agree but there is not much to differentiate the two registries and that might do it. Then the registries, PDCA and White Dxxxxxs would be in direct competition and I'd be fine with that.
Quakie Lane Farms Kirk Cascade Bravo! I was going to post something very similar. I think we sometimes forget as Dexter owners and breeders that the Dexter is a HERITAGE breed and we have a responsibility as caretakers and custodians of the breed to preserve the true he…See More
Joanie Storck Quakie Lane Farms May I input something in your conversation? There was only one registry for the American Dexter cattle, for almost 50 years. Now there are three. One of the two main reasons for the split of the registry was the introduction of the polled animals into a horned breed registry, that did not allow upgraded cattle.
A very dedicated group of dexter lovers established the Legacy registry to preserve the heritage bloodlines. Soooo there are registries for everyones desires and preferences.... why can’t we all be satisfied with the ability to freely choose what we want to raise, without trying to destroy each others reputations?
Quakie Lane Farms Joanie Storck I hope that is not how I came across. I have no desire to destroy anyone's reputation. I just think we sometimes forget that we are dealing with a heritage breed that is already in danger of becoming extinct. It's easy to do. Even I need reminding. I think we also allow society to dictate what the breed should be rather than what it is intended to be. We've seen it happen with dogs. Before you know it, the breed no longer resembles the original standard and people no longer desire to have the breed because they are riddled with defects, etc. I would hate to see that happen to the Dexter breed of cattle. Thank goodness for genetic testing. However, the genetic testing and registration of an animal does not guarantee a quality animal that meets the standards.
Catherine Hall Dal Nogare I don't see the PDCA split as having anything to do with polled animals. The breeders in this area were swayed in the direction of PDCA and they all seem to have some polled animals in their herds. It was a split about people. You can't expect Dexter registries to accept White Dexters as Dexters because you want them too. Horn and polled Dexters are accepted on most continents. It's old news.
Lennie Noblin I guess all of your dexters are all horned and from one of the oldest original lines!!
Greg Baker Quakie Lane Farms Totally agree. That’s why we got started with Dexters. HERITAGE BREED
Kimberly Jepsen My biggest issue with WD's is this: In the same sentence WD breeders will say they are "their own breed" and that they are "Dexters". They can't really be both. Either they are White Dexters with their own breed/registry or they aren't. Crossbreeding to obtain certain traits isn't offensive IMO. To each their own but the name was chosen to be intentionally misleading that I find offensive.
Joanie Storck Kimberly Jepsen I find it interesting that we are discussing AGAIN why they are called White Dexters. They are white and they are a full dexter upgrade. May I ask; when will dexter breeders quit calling their dexters Irish Dexters? How many generations are we away from the cattle that roamed the hills in Ireland? Was there ever a Irish registry?
All this petty bickering is negative toward ALL Dexter cattle.
Lets just let everyone raise the cattle that make them happy...quit trying to destroy the other peoples dreams and visions.
Lennie Noblin I think that they are called "White Dexter" mainly because of folks like the one that started this ridiculous post that refuse to recognize them as a legitimate Dexter in just a new color--sort of like a legitimate Dexter--just polled!!
Teresa Hopper Coggins To each his own and if it sells more Dexters , why not? Dexters are and will always be the seed stock. Are we going to create a problem every time someone crossed breeds? I ask because round here people are crossing Jerseys with Dexters and calling the…See More
Mark Traub Kirk I agree with you 100% if you cross-breeds or try to upgrade a heritage breed it is confusing for you breeders and bad for the breed. I am bald to see you have come to the conclusion that letting Angus polled, and Jersey upgrade into the US herd book was bad for the Dexter breed and caused all kinds of confusion in the breed. I have proof to the confusion and that is having 3 registries for one Breed in the US. I would not loss sleep over white, pink or any other Dexter type when we can not come to one stand resister in the US for the current herd. Their is a trail that shows this upgrade in the us herd book from the beginning. I do not want to talk Biology. I want to talk facts and the facts are or herd book shows these upgrade cattle in the US herd book. If you do want to talk genes why do we now have to red genes in the herd when red was very rare in the 1900"s. This is the last time I will post on this subject. I love the breed and I will do all I can to make it better.
Mark Traub How many likes can I get? If I can get 100 Iikes I will raffle off a one year old steer. This is all in fun. If you can not communicate your ideas in fun why do it and why be a part of a group that does not allow ideas to think on to be shared.
Ryan Thatcher Mark Traub this This right here is very close to my stance on the subject. I commend the WDCA as they are not trying to say the white gene miraculously appeared in the Dexter.
Kirk Cascade Mark Traub
The registered purebred Dexter breed as we know it was founded in 1890 by the Royal Dublin Society with this breed standard for 100% of Dexters:…See More
Kirk Cascade Ryan Thatcher
Godstone Esmeralda, a primary source of the poll gene in Dexters, descends from 1894 foundation Dexter "Harley Poll". None of Esmeralda's parents nor grandparents, nor great grandparents, nor great great grandparents have photo"s nor records of horns.
Kirk Cascade Godstone Esmeralda (and most all of today's poll Dexters) also descend from Spalpeen, a polled 1912 Dexter Bull
Stephanie Ann
Stephanie Ann My only irritation is that they try to market that cross as novel as ask 4x what it’s worth. Just a money grab. Same reason designer mutts are 4x the cost of whatever breed the sire and dam is.
It’s just to market to those amateur hobbyists who ju…See More
Nicole Zurcher Stephanie Ann this is something I can agree with! I have no problem with the creation of White Dexters, nor the fact that they're called White Dexters, but if I would have done it I would have focused on other characteristics as well alongside the whit…See More
Frith Dexters With respect in the UK, the White Park cattle are a rare horned breed & the British white are polled. The only similarities are in the coat markings
Kirk Cascade British White and White Park breeds were one breed until about 1920-1940 when the breed started to split into two separte breeds, one polled and one horned.
"In 1697, the British White breed originated in Whalley Abbey, Lancashire. This herd is said t…See More
British White | Cattle Exchange
CATTLE-EXCHANGE.DROVERS.COM
Frith Dexters Kirk Cascade I bow to your superior historical knowledge, As I understand it, all domestic cattle are descended from the Auroch, so all breeds that developed over the centuries were crossbred by man to highlight desirable traits, Many breeds shared her…See More
Joanie Storck I am impressed that Kirk has researched the White breeds, now maybe he would admit that his original post was misleading in regards to the size of the white breed he started this post with. The breed standards;
British Whites:
Bulls 1800-2300 lbs, cow…See More
Kirk Cascade All breeds of cattle have various sizes within the purebreed
There are already purebred compact versions of the white breed
Bonnie Ann Jensen Joanie Storck kirk is correct there are classic sizes in the British whites, my British white is the same size as my dexter s. Way better looking. Not a person who comes to see them doesn't put the British white first. I guess the job of …See More
Mark Wiseman How about White like Dexters or Miniature white cattle, as they are definitely not Dexter cattle.
Nicole Zurcher Mark Wiseman but the goal is to breed them back again and again, retaining the white gene, making them 99.99% Dexter...
Mark Wiseman Nicole, how can you start with DNA that is not Dexter and attempt to genetically engineer a white Dexter? As it states in the breed standard, the colour is black, brown and dun. Until the representative breed standard accepts the change, it is not a De…See More
Joanie Storck I suppose this discussion would be legitimate IF, that is IF someone were trying to register a White Dexter in any of the other three registries.
Can we please just respect each persons free choice to breed what they want?
Kirk Cascade Joanie Storck
If someone created their own line of White Dexters from scratch and created another new White Dexter registry, and advertised their "registered White Dexters" for sale on your White Dexter pages,…See More
Joanie Storck Kirk Cascade we do have a trademarked name/registry.
Thank you for your concern. We would deal with it in a professional manner. …See More
Bonnie Ann Jensen Thing about the white dexter is it's just a color breed. The bad thing is they won't let any new blood into it. Bad idea way to small of a gene pool. Kinda like pintos, they won't last long. Even British White let new blood in.
Joanie Storck Bonnie Ann Jensen Your statement is oxymoron. We won’t let any new blood in? The White Park genetics is NEW. If a small gene pool is going to destroy us then the Dexter breed is doing a “bad thing” (they don’t allow outside bloodlines in their regist…See More
Nicole Zurcher Bonnie Ann Jensen honestly they let a LOT of new blood in! Any registered Dexter can be used. If they let any "new white blood" in, it defeats their purpose of increasing the Dexter percentage and will increase the amount of non-dexters in the bloodline. As I understand it, they intend them to be an upgrade to the Dexter breed and not it's own breed.
Kirk Cascade For those who missed the point. The point is that there already are purebred registered original heritage White Cattle avaiable in compact sizes. If you want white, then get the real thing.
Jenna Johnson who's post is this Kirk?
Pavonne Camerer Are you familiar with the terms FULLBLOOD and PUREBRED? These denotations are used both in the cattle and goat industries. A Fullblood is an animal that contains no outside breeding. A Purebred is on that has been upgraded to either 7/8 or 15/16 of the Fullblood. In boer goats, the registry recognizes and registers both Fullblood and Purebred boers. Likewise in some cattle registries. With the dexter breed originating from a combination of other breeds in Ireland, and possibly being upgraded with polled genetics, wouldn't almost all dexters in the U S now be purebreds? If so, then the White Dexter, after over ten years of breeding to ADCA cows would be 15/16 dexter, or Purebred. Regardless of anyone's opinion on the name White Dexter, or the wisdom of breeding the white color pattern into the dexter breed....... they are a purebred dexter by definition and the breed is popular and judged by their popularity, here to stay.
Jane Jackson Pavonne Camerer well said. We have pure and fullblood in the Dorper sheep industry too. You explain it much. Better than I. But I fully agree. My hope is that someday they will be recognized in other Dexter registries. But we must be true in breeding to gain their respect.
Bonnie Ann Jensen Pavonne Camerer I get what Kirk Cascade is saying. It does seem like they're just trying to duplicate the British white. Having both British white and Dexter's , I will say this the white Dexter's will never replace the British white.…See More
Pavonne Camerer Kirk Cascade To answer your question. Mathematically yes accoding to the definition of purebred and full blood that the livestock industry uses. Kirk, you missed my point. The term purebred denotes a 15/16 or a 7/8 genetic makeup. It is a term use…See More
Pavonne Camerer Kirk Cascade Only ONE White Park bull was used to introduce the color pattern into the dexter breed. EVERY subsequent breeding used ADCA and PDCA registered dexters. You are entitled to your opinion, but please keep the facts straight.
Kirk Cascade Pavonne Camerer
The point of "pure-breeding" is to create animals that breed true for their breed-defining traits. It's not just a paper game of how the animal looks on paper. …See More
Mark Traub The polled Dexter breed is a great example of what Kirk is referring to in this post. I am glad Kirk is coming on board that Dexter's were a horned breed and an UPGRADE program gave as a new Breed call POLLED DEXTER just like WHITE DEXTER. In the pass…See More
Nicole Zurcher Mark Traub I've not been in this group long, but long enough to know how worked up Kirk gets about the exact opposite of what you just said. Maybe you need a different example.
Pavonne Camerer This discussion would be endless so I will bow out. I am more interested in facts than opinion. The truth is that we love our White Dexters and have had the most phenominal year with our cattle because of them. We have met the most wonderful people,…See More
Kirk Cascade So it turns out that the "White Dexter" folks would do anything for money, including harming the Dexter Breed and harming the White Park/British White Breeds.
When the hybrid "White Dexter" fad burns out and the basement registry fails there will be a lot of folks stuck with useless papers and over-priced dead-end animals that aren't Dexters and aren't accepted by any real Dexter registries.
Troy Rucker They are making more Money than you are on their “White Dexters” so I don’t think they care about your opinion. Market rules supply chain get over it.
Kirk Cascade They obviously care a great deal about my opinion or they would not be posting here.
Many of us here are helping to preserve heritage Dexters for future generations, while others will happily destroy the breed for a buck.…See More
Joanie Storck Kirk Cascade we keep coming on YOUR page, (that you control what comments you delete) because you keep repeating the same rhetoric over and over again, like Sesame Street. Apparently you think people are too immature to make their own decisions witho…See More
Rick Waechter White Dexters? Never heard of them until I read this post.
Yeah, they won’t even be noticed.
Pavonne Camerer My ADCA polled red dexter cow loves her white baby.
Rick Waechter Pavonne Camerer note that the ADCA registered red cow, will probably not recognize your hybrid calf.
No such thing as a white Dexter.
You should look at the CDCA Breed standards, very precise descriptions.
Pavonne Camerer Rick Waechter The name White Dexter is a trademarked name that denotes a new breed. Our ADCA cows love their white calves.
Rick Waechter
Rick Waechter Pavonne Camerer don’t give a rats foot if it’s trademark or not. Does the ADCA recognize this white park Dexter hybrid? Probably not.
ANY cow looks after their calves regardless of colour. …See More
Pavonne Camerer Rick Waechter I was responding to your comment that our ADCA registered red cow would not recognize her calf.
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Rick Waechter Pavonne Camerer I am talking about the organization not the cow.
Hey I will breed a highland with a Dexter and call it a....Hexter.
Rick Waechter Pavonne Camerer it’s a hybrid or a cross. Period. Enjoy.
Joanie Storck Rick Waechter There already is a HighDex breeding group. You are too late.
Rick Waechter Joanie Storck there is no recognized highdex breed. Their might be a group but it’s not an official breed.
Joanie Storck Rick Waechter I did not say it was a breed.
Pavonne Camerer Kirk Cascade You are the one who started this fuss, not any white dexter people. We have ADCA dexter cows as well and we love our dexters. We have not posted any of our whites on your group page and would not have commented on this thread had all the facts been correct. If you don't want a fight, don't start one.
Linda J Holloway Wow , quite the commentary and all over color. I think Pavonne Camerer has it right on this one.
I agree the about the politics in ADCA and why another registry would succeed.
All it takes is a computer and many registries are an off shoot from another .
All about choice , still America so you can join or stay w the registry you choose.
Kirk Cascade Other people over the years have created fad-chasing Dexter cross breeds and created their own registries. Those basement registries always fail and those fad animals are lost and the cross breed dies out when the fad burns out.
Meanwhile, the ADCA and its predecessor has been here registering True Dexters for a century.
In another century from now, ADCA registered Dexters will still be here helping families.
ADCA registered Dexters trace back to the 1800's in Ireland and follow the breed standard that considered white to be a serious flaw.
Real Dexter Breeders have spent 130 years breeding and culling excess white OUT of Dexters.
White = Not a Dexter
and that's been true since at least 1890
Stephanie Ann Why should you care what crosses others have ?
Why would quarter horse people care what paint breeders do even though quarter horse blood is in paints ?
Kirk Cascade White Dexters are being marketed as purebred Dexters that are colored white. They stole the Dexter name. Paint breeders didn't steal the Quarter Horse name.
This photo is from the White Dexter website where they claim that White Dexters are the old …See More
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Image may contain: outdoor, possible text that says 'White Dexter Cattle An Old Breed with a New Color'
Kirk Cascade "The American Paint Horse is a breed of horse that combines both the conformational characteristics of a western stock horse with a pinto spotting pattern of white and dark coat colors. The American Paint Horse Association (APHA) breed registry is now…See More
Stephanie Ann Kirk Cascade let me blow ya mind. I have a registered APHA (paint) that’s mostly AQHA (quarter horse).
Sire was full AQHA, dam was 1/4 AQHA
Kirk Cascade Your "Paint" is called a "Paint" and follows the Paint rules.
It's not called a "Spotted Quarter Horse". …See More
Stephanie Ann Kirk Cascade all this worrying is gonna kill ya. Worry about something that actually matters.
Kirk Cascade Preserving heritage breeds matters a great deal. We wouldn't have Dexters today if folks from 50 years ago didn't vigorously defend and preserve Dexters for us.
Here is another breed of animal that our farm has worked tirelessly to save from near extinction ... American Guinea Hogs... Nearly extinct 16 years ago, and now thriving. …See More
