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Polled
Oct 7, 2014 4:05:40 GMT
Post by jamshundred on Oct 7, 2014 4:05:40 GMT
Kirk
A few days ago I read a new research paper on polled mutations. I thought I bookmarked it to send to you but now I cannot find it. Maybe you can find it easier than I can. It was very recent
Judy
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Polled
Oct 7, 2014 19:44:54 GMT
Post by legendrockranch on Oct 7, 2014 19:44:54 GMT
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Polled
Oct 8, 2014 16:27:04 GMT
Post by Legend Rock Ranch on Oct 8, 2014 16:27:04 GMT
Don't know if anyone picked up on this or not. The article I posted above also states:
"We found evidence for sporadic occurrence of de novo mutations leading to polledness"
De novo mutations, mean that they are "new" mutations.
Then there is this statement the article makes: "there is evidence for the existence of hornless cattle until back to ancient times.
Barb
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Polled
Oct 8, 2014 16:51:09 GMT
Post by jamshundred on Oct 8, 2014 16:51:09 GMT
Good morning Barb,
Yes! ! That is the article I read and was going to send to Kirk even though I knew there were some bullets in there that might fit his pellet gun. Thanks for posting it ! !
I am now skeptical of most published scientific offerings because they seem to be done for one "reward or another". I was critical of the dun research paper the moment I read it and saw that the breed that could have contributed the most likely data wasn't even included in the parameters of the research. As a matter of fact.. . . there just simply was not enough samples at all to come to such an exclusive conclusion.
Then. . . we had the scientists who have been outed about contrived and false data in the global warming debate, and for me, the most egregious of late was the scientist who made up the research that resulted in thousands of young girls taking a vaccination for a malady that didn't even exist!
I am still trying to sort out the differing viewpoints on the pronoucements of Dr. Cothran's associate of the past ( and maybe the present for all I know) that proclaims on radio and TV media that she had DNA typed sasquatch. ( Big Foot). I have listened to her on Coast to Coast AM and my opinion of her is a step or two below skeptical.
And let us not forget the scientists who take the oath to tell the truth in courtroom cases each day where one declares one truth and the opposite declares another. Science is for sale to the highest bidder!
But. . . anyway. . . thanks again for posting that!
OH! Let me close with a question. Why do you suppose a herd that was closed for 50 years never had a mutation? And why do you suppose another herd that was closed for nearly that long, and provided the parentage for the first claim of "mutation" ( which no one would allow to be tested - hahahaha) never provided another instance?
Judy
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Polled
Oct 8, 2014 18:07:14 GMT
Post by Legend Rock Ranch on Oct 8, 2014 18:07:14 GMT
Hi Judy,
I am not a scientist, people in my family have medical backgrounds, I do know that there are mutations and nurture/nature things that do happen, it does with humans How else would you explain why some children nowadays are born without wisdom teeth? Not a great number of children, none the less it is happening. Nowadays wisdom teeth can cause more problems than good. At one time humans had a use for them, that is not the case anymore.
Again as the article stated "We found evidence for sporadic occurrence of de novo mutations leading to polledness" you can choose to believe this part of the article or not. Once again these are "new" mutations. New mutations are happening all the time.
"there is evidence for the existence of hornless cattle until back to ancient times" could some of these animals attributed to the Dexter breed? We will never know, nor can we disprove the theory either. Genetic Mutations: ghr.nlm.nih.gov/handbook/mutationsanddisorders/genemutation
Barb
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Polled
Oct 9, 2014 5:49:58 GMT
Post by cascade on Oct 9, 2014 5:49:58 GMT
I've seen this article in the past and it says exactly what I'd expect to hear.... That fresh polled mutations occur regularly in all horned breeds. In the production of sperm, a single bull has to make billions of copies of his DNA every day. Mutations are simply copy errors. One of the genes for making horns grow, is simply a regulator gene that starts the process of horn growth, if that gene is copied wrong, then you get no horns. While the DNA copy process is pretty accurate, mistakes occur regularly. It's the driving force behind genetic variation.
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Polled
Oct 9, 2014 15:58:13 GMT
Post by genebo on Oct 9, 2014 15:58:13 GMT
It's naive to think that the same mutation would occur repeatedly. It would make more sense to think that a new mutation would result in twisted horns or maybe even a single horn right in the forehead. Especially since the article as well as the polled test offered by UC Davis can trace all the polled cattle to two genetic types, Angus or Friesian. Surely you have had your own cattle tested and they all show their Angus ancestry in the results.
Look up the random mutation theory and see how you can possibly relate the impossible odds of a duplicate mutation to the "Spontaneous mutation theory" that wasn advanced to explain away SP's Angus ancestry prior to Judy unearthing the records.
You have read the registration records of his Angus ancestry, haven't you? You do know that any theory you can continue to support about mutation will have to overcome hard, written facts. It's a waste of time. Better to let go of that old chestnut, made up at the time of SP's registration squabbles, and find something more creative to do. File that under Fiction.
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Polled
Oct 9, 2014 17:35:56 GMT
Post by legendrockranch on Oct 9, 2014 17:35:56 GMT
It's naive to think that the same mutation would occur repeatedly. Well if that were the case how do you explain PHA, same gene however located in a different area? Effecting several breeds. Genes can continually mutate.
Yes my cattle were all tested at UC Davis, all came back Celtic polled. Angus was never mentioned anywhere on the report.
Can you converse without making snide remarks?
Barb
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Polled
Oct 10, 2014 4:54:33 GMT
Post by cascade on Oct 10, 2014 4:54:33 GMT
It's naive to think that the same mutation would occur repeatedly. Most mutations are simply broken genes. For example, the TYRP1 gene in all animals, codes for a protein enzyme that acts as a catalyst to make eumelanin (black pigment) look black. If that gene is miss-copied and broken, then the animal looks brown/dun/chocolate instead of black. You can break that gene in any number of ways and still get the same result... brown instead of black. That mutation (broken gene) occurs REPEATEDLY in cats and sheep and pigs and dogs and mice and cows and many other animals. In another example of mutations, the AGGRECAN (ACAN) gene codes for normal development of chondrocytes which are the cells that generate cartilage and form bone. When the ACAN gene is miss-copied and is broken, then the animal suffers from Chondrodysplasia dwarfism and bones are miss-formed. This same mutation occurs repeatedly in most all breeds of animals and that's why there are dwarf cats and dwarf dogs and dwarf rabbits and dwarf horses and dwarf cows. In the case of the "Polled" gene, there really is NOT a polled gene, but rather, it's just a broken, miss-copied horn-regulator gene. These genes are likely miss-copied (broken) once in every 10,000 copies and that's why it pops up repeatedly in all breeds of horned cattle.
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