How much Diatomaceous Earth do you feed?

[genebo]

I'm puzzled about how much ciatomaceous earth (DE) to feed my cattle. It's supposed to help keep their worm load down.

My cattle never show any signs of needing worming. The vet just looked them over and declared them to be in great shape.

I keep one goat on the same pasture for each of the cattle, to help keep the worm load down on the pasture, and the Muscovy ducks do a good job of eating everything edible out of the manure. I assume that includes worm eggs. I also feed about a tablespoon of DE per Dexter once a day, scattered on their feed.

Is this how much you feed? If not, how much?

[otf]

Hi Genebo, to my knowledge, no scientific studies have ever found DE to be an effective dewormer. If you know of any, please let me know. To be certain, you can always have a fecal test done at one of the state labs or at your vet's office. (This font is so tiny; between a new computer and this new board, I'm having trouble making this large enough to read. Will keep trying!)

Gale

[wvdexters]

We've been taking steps here to try to lower the parasite load too. Setting up our pastures in a loop; with small sections we rotate through during the grazing season. Trying to keep them on clean ground.

I also liked Mike's idea of feeding them just a little bit of corn to help entice the local birds into helping out and breaking up the clumps. The crows do a great job. We also tried ducks and free range chickens but that didn't work out too well here, we just lose them too quickly. (I now know how the term "sitting duck" came about.) I've even been toying with the idea of trying a goose or two. I wonder if they'd do the job and manage to survive a little better.

Our main problem time is during the winter when we have to bring them in to the small "sacrifice" area where they stay until spring arrives. We've never tried DE but it sounds like it could be a good practice. I know they have it for sale in town in the chicken feed section. I'd like to find out more about it.

[genebo]

I guess that DE is like ACD. Some people swear by it. I discovered that our local feed store sold food grade DE, so I decided to give it a shot. Anything for the Dexters, you know!

I wasn't having a problem with worms, I just didn't want to miss out if this was a good thing to do.

My goats have been getting it, too, and they passed the Famancha test with flying colors. The only reason I even have goats is to cut the worm load on the pasture for the cattle. Mine are fainters and brush goats, both very good at surviving in heavy worm areas.

There is a lot of difference between muscovies and other ducks. Muscovies are generally larger and have claws. A predator would probably choose a different bird to target for a meal that go up against muscovy claws. I've been feeding my mammals whole kernel corn for years to help entice the ducks to do their job. It works! I have never had to drag the pastures and it's hard to find a manure pile where the ducks roam.

How did you two get the same avatar? Is that the default for this group?

[jamshundred]

Gene,

I used to give this on top of grain, ( maybe a half cup full) when I would give grain for treats or training.   I don't know that it ever worked.  In early spring I would dust it on their backs for lice and for flys in summer. 
I never did decide if it worked well.  I haven't used it for ages.   I do not worm my animals.   Mine have woods and weeds and that is all that is required by nature.  I want my animals to keep their natural knowledge and instincts so they know what plants to eat for health.   It was my experience over the years that wormers were not good for the animals and the animals became addicted.  Seriously.  I have brought in animals from herds that wormed on a regular basis and struggled to get them off wormers.  In other words, they would look wormy and be wormy  and not get over it through spring pastures and I would have to worm.  Sometimes twice.  And it took a couple years to get the animals off the stuff.  I know there are those who swear by it. . . .  . . . but they tell you to wear gloves!  ( I guess so you don't worm yourself.  LOL).

Judy

[lonecowhand]

Genebo,
How does having a goat in with the cows keep the worm load down?

Once I decided to test the usefulness of Diatomacious Earth as an insecticide, as it was being touted as an safe remedy back in the Organic Garden days. I mixed corn meal and D.E. about half and half, filled a small airtight bottle half full so there would be adequate air, and added a couple of flour or larder beetles (those little guys that eat horn ,hair or grain)and stoppered it up and put it on the shelf.
Much later(like a year) I checked my result, an most of the airspace was filled with the hundreds of generations of larder beetles, and their chaff. It didn't bother them at all. That's when I gave up on D.E.

[genebo]

Cows and goats both have problems with worms, but they are not the same worms. Worms live in the rumen of the animal and shed eggs that drop out with manure. The eggs hatch and spend some time in the ground. Then the worms crawl up blades of grass to be eaten, where they re-infect the host. When goats and cows graze the same pasture, each will eat some of the other's worms but not be infected by them. This cuts the worm load on that pasture.

Other ways to cut the number of worms that a cow gets is to do rotational grazing so that the grass is never grazed below 4" tall. 6" would be better. The worms dry out as the climb the grass blades, so not many reach the taller parts of the blades.

According to my vet, drought is also our friend, as far as worms go. The drier it is, the sooner they dry out climbing the grass.

In an experiment, researchers from Virginia Tech grazed goats in a rotational grazing pattern that moved them every 3 days, before the grass got short, and never put them back on the same pasture for 35 days. The worm life cycle is 31 days. If it doesn't find a host in that time, it dies. The researchers were able to keep goats for 9 years on this rotation without worming them. All of the control farms, which used conventional worming methods were out of business by 9 years.

The same thing is bound to work with cattle. However, I wouldn't know. I've always run Dexters and goats together, one-on-one. I've never had an issue with worms in a Dexter and I don't have to worm my goats more than once a year. Not every year, either. None needed it this year when the crew came to trim hooves.

In addition to running Dexters and cows together, I do use Cydectin on the cattle once a year, in the spring, and again if the flies get out of control. This year, just the one worming in late May. I also leave certain weeds alone around the edges of the pasture. Native lespedeza, Poke salad and poison ivy, a little sumac here and there, and a few acorns and oak leaves. There is not enough of any of it to hurt a cow or goat, but they all contain chemicals that are bad in quantities. The hope is that they don't hurt the cattle, but kill their parasites. I can tell you without a doubt that they don't hurt the cattle.

[Donlin Dexters]

I can let you know how the DE goes on potential egg counts.

I was asked by a friend (outlined on other forum) about using DE as he is organic through and through but his two Dexters came back with a low egg burden. Vet said he could worm or leave it and wait another 3 months to do another egg count. So he decided to try the DE and do regular worm counts to see the effects, if any.

He has begun half a cup of wet food grade DE on each moos treats given every second afternoon.

1 x 6 yr old female, dwarf, 8 months pregnant. 1 x steer, non-dwarf, 11 mths old

He is on 7 acres so rotation isnt an option but he has promised to keep me informed of his egg counts as he has them done so will post here if you like.

if it proves to be an effective wormer, then we will also use it if egg counts are recorded. We also use a flukicide each year in April/May but have decided to move this (next year) to late August as we have purchased Cydectin with Fluke ( to treat the wombats for external parasites) and will utilise its external parasite control ability as we enter spring.

Gene, cracked corn is supposedly more easily digested by the moo than whole corn is as it travels through. And it will also have the same effect on encouraging poultry to poop forage

I cant remember where the results were published online (Im at work) but I did bookmark the URL on the home computer. Will locate and post for you to read.

Donna

[genebo]

Donna,

I'm not feeding whole kernel corn for nutrition of the cattle. It's mainly for the "scratch factor" of dislodging worms from the rumen walls as it passes through. Secondly, it's to entice the birds to scatter the manure piles. It really works well for the second. Muscovy ducks follow the cattle around, awaiting a treat.

I want to hear the results of the DE test.

[Donlin Stud]

Oh gotcha on the whole corn.

Our muscovies are either too lazy to follow the cattle or the Guinea fowl are getting in there first.

Some chooks will follow the moos, sometimes, but lately we have found the white cockatoos are 'dealing' with the poop on the opposite side of the property, much to our delight.

Will update on the DE.