Post by jamshundred on Jan 18, 2015 22:33:06 GMT
Since hearing ADCA had requested permission of Andrew Sheppy to reprint his introgression article in the ADCA Bulletin, my thoughts have been pulled back to DUN.
I have researched dun extensively in the US and looked at it a bit in the UK but only went as far as Grinstead Plover, and something else took me off in another direction. The little research I did beyond Plover led me to think the dun appeared earlier and if registered was likely registered as red and I have stated that in what I have written.
The Sheppy article attributes the dun in Woodmagic to Grinstead Plover which I agree is likely but now I think it goes behind Plover. Sheppy believes the Red Poll cattle used on the Grinstead farm for beef and crossing with Dexters for beef were the source as Red Poll was developed from Sussex Dun crossed with Lincoln Red cattle. I have a photo of Sussex dun cattle and because of the similarity in the Sussex duns to some of the phenotypes of the earlier Woodmagic this also contributed to Sheppy's theory. I will find that photo and post it later.
Today I went back to the American lines and the dun research I have, which traces to Grinstead. . . . . via the 1950's imports and Grinstead Ambassador in particular. That is not an absolute as there were other imports and their connections to any dun in the UK should also be researched. but the bottom line is. all these animals have close Grinstead ancestors.
I was told when I began researching Dexters that one identified dun in the US prior to Woodmagic was Ida-J-Mar Red Hawk. I was also given the name of Chiquita Rosita as a carrier of dun. ( She will trace back to the same imports discussed below).
I had a list of any animal registered as dun or red/dun and checked through pedigrees. As with my previous research all duns will trace to the 1950's imports. from the UK.
Working with Ida-J-Mar Red Hawk parents; Sire is Sir William ( had to be carrying dun) There are Woodmagic dun ancestors - a possible source of dun via Grinstead Plover, but there is also another possible source on the 1950's imports . . traces back to Grinstead . . . but NO Plover. No evidence of which line it carried from. Dam: Ida-J-Mar Erin (had to be carrying dun) This is pretty conclusive. This cow had NO imported dun that could have came through Woodmagic or Grinstead Plover. Her dun likely traces to Grinstead but through Grinstread Ambassador who had NO Plover in the pedigree.
Just looking at this ONE animal in the US herd makes a very strong case that Grinstead Plover was not the sole source of dun. It does not make a case that the red poll cattle in the Grinstead herd were not the source. Grinstead Ambassador was four years older than Plover.
interesting to look at some ancestors of these Grinstead animals. . . just for fun, that have names that give one thoughts of color. Color that might resemble shades of dun we have seen.
The granddam of Grinstead Ambassador was Sparr Penny
The grandsire Grinstead Ambassador was Ickwell Amber
With Grinstead Plover we have: Dam: Grinstead Peachblossom 8th which descends from ancestors through the pedigree like G.Peachtree and Murral Peachblossom to Brokenhurst Peachblossom.
The grandsire of Plover ( sire of Peachblossom 8th) is Banwell Sandy whose sire was Runnymeade Peachstone which went back to grandsire Murrell Peachblossom 2nd.
Those names are significant of nothing. . . . but just interesting.
The birthdate of Grinstead Plover - May 25, 1954
The birthdate of Grinstead Ambassador - July 17, 1950
Other imports in the 1950's that "might" have been a source of dun:
Linden Pirate - Shares ancestors with Plover and Ambassador
Grinstead Convolvulus 11th and a couple other Grinstead cows
There were also some cows with export certificates to the US to Edward Lord in NY and Mable Ingalls that were never registered in ADCA. These were Atlantic, Pentre Hobyn and Ruster animals and they are not connected to any pedigrees so of no significance.
Judy
If there is anyone else interested in dun research there are many, many, connecting pedigrees on the Legacy Registry website. You should have to connect through a registered animal like Woodmagic Hedgehog III or one of the Colorado animals that go back to Grinstead Ambassador. I am always willing to share research materials.
I have researched dun extensively in the US and looked at it a bit in the UK but only went as far as Grinstead Plover, and something else took me off in another direction. The little research I did beyond Plover led me to think the dun appeared earlier and if registered was likely registered as red and I have stated that in what I have written.
The Sheppy article attributes the dun in Woodmagic to Grinstead Plover which I agree is likely but now I think it goes behind Plover. Sheppy believes the Red Poll cattle used on the Grinstead farm for beef and crossing with Dexters for beef were the source as Red Poll was developed from Sussex Dun crossed with Lincoln Red cattle. I have a photo of Sussex dun cattle and because of the similarity in the Sussex duns to some of the phenotypes of the earlier Woodmagic this also contributed to Sheppy's theory. I will find that photo and post it later.
Today I went back to the American lines and the dun research I have, which traces to Grinstead. . . . . via the 1950's imports and Grinstead Ambassador in particular. That is not an absolute as there were other imports and their connections to any dun in the UK should also be researched. but the bottom line is. all these animals have close Grinstead ancestors.
I was told when I began researching Dexters that one identified dun in the US prior to Woodmagic was Ida-J-Mar Red Hawk. I was also given the name of Chiquita Rosita as a carrier of dun. ( She will trace back to the same imports discussed below).
I had a list of any animal registered as dun or red/dun and checked through pedigrees. As with my previous research all duns will trace to the 1950's imports. from the UK.
Working with Ida-J-Mar Red Hawk parents; Sire is Sir William ( had to be carrying dun) There are Woodmagic dun ancestors - a possible source of dun via Grinstead Plover, but there is also another possible source on the 1950's imports . . traces back to Grinstead . . . but NO Plover. No evidence of which line it carried from. Dam: Ida-J-Mar Erin (had to be carrying dun) This is pretty conclusive. This cow had NO imported dun that could have came through Woodmagic or Grinstead Plover. Her dun likely traces to Grinstead but through Grinstread Ambassador who had NO Plover in the pedigree.
Just looking at this ONE animal in the US herd makes a very strong case that Grinstead Plover was not the sole source of dun. It does not make a case that the red poll cattle in the Grinstead herd were not the source. Grinstead Ambassador was four years older than Plover.
interesting to look at some ancestors of these Grinstead animals. . . just for fun, that have names that give one thoughts of color. Color that might resemble shades of dun we have seen.
The granddam of Grinstead Ambassador was Sparr Penny
The grandsire Grinstead Ambassador was Ickwell Amber
With Grinstead Plover we have: Dam: Grinstead Peachblossom 8th which descends from ancestors through the pedigree like G.Peachtree and Murral Peachblossom to Brokenhurst Peachblossom.
The grandsire of Plover ( sire of Peachblossom 8th) is Banwell Sandy whose sire was Runnymeade Peachstone which went back to grandsire Murrell Peachblossom 2nd.
Those names are significant of nothing. . . . but just interesting.
The birthdate of Grinstead Plover - May 25, 1954
The birthdate of Grinstead Ambassador - July 17, 1950
Other imports in the 1950's that "might" have been a source of dun:
Linden Pirate - Shares ancestors with Plover and Ambassador
Grinstead Convolvulus 11th and a couple other Grinstead cows
There were also some cows with export certificates to the US to Edward Lord in NY and Mable Ingalls that were never registered in ADCA. These were Atlantic, Pentre Hobyn and Ruster animals and they are not connected to any pedigrees so of no significance.
Judy
If there is anyone else interested in dun research there are many, many, connecting pedigrees on the Legacy Registry website. You should have to connect through a registered animal like Woodmagic Hedgehog III or one of the Colorado animals that go back to Grinstead Ambassador. I am always willing to share research materials.