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Post by genebo on Aug 15, 2014 16:48:08 GMT
I have no part in this. It was once a legitimate discussion.
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Post by lonecowhand on Aug 15, 2014 18:50:21 GMT
Congratulations, Gene and Judy, on a worthy long running program which can benefit all future dexter owners, and the breed. This almost makes my eye water! Great News!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2014 14:38:59 GMT
Why go to all this expense and work to get a legacy cow that caries red If you are not going to breed her to a Legacy bull?
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Post by wvdexters on Aug 17, 2014 17:43:27 GMT
What great news Gene!!!! Congratulations  |
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Post by genebo on Aug 17, 2014 19:12:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2014 22:36:09 GMT
gene, at this point i have no plans to have him collected. I don't really do the whole AI thing. I think it would end up costing me more than my return. I have 2 breeding bulls right now but here is my oldest. www.legacydextercattleregistry.com/images/animals/L00608R00_L.jpgHe is Legacy and mostly woodmagic. He is a grandson of fairy Hill Peter. 42" non chondro PHA free A2/A1 He carries dun and has a tendency to throw dun a lot. Only one black one from him this year He also tends to have bull calves. only one heifer this year. I only have one breeding age cow from him. the one in my avatar. she has a good udder and is a good producer for a first timer. she does have one extra button teat but I think that came from her dam. she also has an extra one. but it is small and nothing I am going to worry about. The only fault I would say on her udder is the back teats are a little to small but I machine milk so that does not matter. He has produced some real nice bull calves. I am using one of them now that one will be for sale when I am certain he has gotten everyone bred. |
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Post by wvdexters on Aug 18, 2014 16:49:44 GMT
No Gene, I didn't know about Sweetie. How sad. I knew she was having problems but I didn't know she was gone. She really was a beautiful lady. This is a good photo you have of her. Do you know about how old she is here? I want to print off a copy and put it in Caitlyn's folder. I can really see the resemblance of mother/daughter. Different color but same face. That is such good news about Adam. And I think Hans has found a couple traditional red cows up in his area. As for a race  .... Who Knows ....... We have a 25% chance on a red calf here at any time. Soooo .... Keep listening cause you'll probably here us if we get one. |
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Post by genebo on Aug 19, 2014 2:17:02 GMT
Sweetie was 13 in the picture. It was taken when she was here, when Caitlyn was bred. Sweetie was 16 when she passed.
I'll send you a couple of other pictures by email and you can pick which one you like best.
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Post by Donlin Stud on Aug 20, 2014 20:53:32 GMT
This is so very exciting. Keep us posted  |
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Post by genebo on Aug 20, 2014 21:55:29 GMT
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Post by lakeportfarms on Aug 20, 2014 23:39:27 GMT
Did you hear the news about Rainbow Hills Sweetie? She is gone. Day before yesterday. I don't know if there are any more traditional red Dexter cows left alive.  Rainbow Hills Sweetie Gene, our cow Lady II is red and out of traditional lines. We also have 5 other traditional cows that carry red. And I guess if Bullfinch is going to join the club of Legacy qualified they'd be as well...We're working on a chondro bull calf out of her and our new bull Shadwell (who is all black) to carry red and hopefully have a couple red bulls or cows on the ground in a couple of years out of traditional lines. I also have some semen from Shawn Lord of her bulls that carry red to get into the upcoming calves, so it's just a matter of time since Lady II is such a youngster (4 years old) and we can produce some others that carry red. |
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Post by jamshundred on Aug 21, 2014 0:50:26 GMT
Hi Gene,
I've congratulated you by email but not in public. . . . so here goes. . . . YIPPEE ! !
There is another red cow in the east. Chad Williams has her. . . . her name is lady. We will have to wait another year to get traditional red from her. . because she is bred to modern right now.
I DO have some news I am just bustin' to tell but it has to wait! ! ( Don't you just hate people who do that!? I DO! LOL).
Judy
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Post by lakeportfarms on Aug 21, 2014 10:36:42 GMT
Hi Gene, I've congratulated you by email but not in public. . . . so here goes. . . . YIPPEE ! ! There is another red cow in the east. Chad Williams has her. . . . her name is lady. We will have to wait another year to get traditional red from her. . because she is bred to modern right now. I DO have some news I am just bustin' to tell but it has to wait! ! ( Don't you just hate people who do that!? I DO! LOL). Judy That is quite a coincidence that there is another "Lady" that is traditional red! Our Lady II delivered a cute little red chondro heifer this year, but she had been bred to our bull Dylan (dun) out of Mike. Dylan carries red from Outlaw and also has some Lucifer in his pedigree from his dam's side. But it is a hopeful sign that perhaps she'll tend to throw red more than the odds would suggest. Her mother Matilda who is black, did the same when bred to a black carries red bull, and also frequently throws red from a red bull, and we have had several red calves out of the other cows bred to a red bull of modern lines. Our other traditional girls that carry red are Lady, Matilda, Sunshine, Dora, and Dolly. Lady is the dam of all but Dolly, who is out of another cow (now deceased or I would have her too!). Dinsmore Farm Duncan is the sire of all but Lady, and Duncan is deceased. Dora, Dolly, and Lady II are all pretty young cows, and Sunshine and Matilda are only 7 and 6 years old and in good health so we'll have many good opportunities. We are struggling to get Lady bred. I'm not sure it is going to happen. Too bad because she is chondro positive and we would have loved a traditional red chondro bull (or heifer) out of her. |
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Post by wvdexters on Aug 21, 2014 14:20:41 GMT
Rainbow Hills Sweetie has a beautiful new grandson. Knobley Macklynn. He is beautiful!!!
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Post by genebo on Aug 24, 2014 2:12:59 GMT
We have another Dexter owner in the project to restore American red to the Dexter herd. Clem and Carole Niroski will be taking Dara Inion of Paradise and her new son, Adam One of Paradise to Morning Star Farm in Ohio. Welcome to the fold!
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Post by morningstarfarm on Aug 24, 2014 12:05:21 GMT
Thanks Gene, we are so thrilled to be able to obtain Dara and Adam. Looking forward to the future and the possibilities of a red traditional animals on Morning Star Farm |
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Post by wvdexters on Aug 29, 2014 13:41:42 GMT
This is such wonderful news. Congratulations to both of you!!
I've been thinking about this project so much lately. How far it has come, especially over this past year. And how just a few dedicated people starting with two aged cows have accomplished so much. I am just so happy to have been able to become a part of it and I know Morningstar feels the same. Thanks guys. And Carole, like you I can't wait to see Traditional Reds back in the fields and back in the Dexter Herd.
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Post by cascade on Dec 26, 2015 1:59:18 GMT
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Post by genebo on Dec 26, 2015 3:37:51 GMT
Eve is getting closer to her due date. She is just beginning to bag up and is a little puffy. She has 8 days to go.
This will be a Traditional calf. We're aiming for a Legacy calf next time using Fairy Hill Peter.
I was offered Traditional red semen to raise the possibility of getting a Traditional red calf, but felt an obligation to pursue a Legacy calf.
If Eve could produce a Legacy bull that carried red, that would be a big step forward (or backward in time if you look at it that way).
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Post by bruff64 on Dec 26, 2015 13:27:47 GMT
"The latest development is that Judy's research into Bullfinch's ancestry has failed to turn up anything to substantiate teh claim that his mother was furtively outcrossed to a Guernsey or Jersey bull by a disgruntled former farm hand. She recently published the decision to change his registration category from Traditional to Legacy."
Is this official? I do not see this on the Legacy site.
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Post by jamshundred on Dec 26, 2015 22:49:47 GMT
Larry, where did that come from? I have never said that to anyone. (The changing of categories). I HAVE uncovered some new information relevant to to a cow in the pedigree that is missing the pedigree and have another attempt in the works to see if there is a chance the paperwork can be found in any old records. I also uncovered some info on the herd owners. I think I may have been right in my guess there were war time issues with the paperwork of the owner. ( It was told to me that there WAS an issue with the registry during the war years as well) I found a reference on the internet in the hometown paper where the wife was moving from the manor house, and Perhaps out of the "village" with no mention of the husband. I found information that he was a Captain in the military, but cannot yet find if he was seriously injured...perhaps killed. The herd seems to have gone through a sudden dispersal so I am speculating something happened to the Captain during the war. I shall not stop digging!
judy
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Post by wvdexters on Dec 27, 2015 0:09:42 GMT
Gene, that would be so exciting. A red Legacy bull. That would be wonderful for the Traditional Red Preservation Project and an amazing addition for the breed.
You are right. We can bring the Dexter Breed back. It's going to take a lot of effort, But it can still be done. The building blocks are here. It's just going to take time, and dedicated breeders.
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Post by bruff64 on Dec 27, 2015 17:29:43 GMT
Judy,
I took it from the fifth response in this thread, by Gene.
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Post by jamshundred on Dec 27, 2015 18:10:11 GMT
Larry. . . LOL. I didn't read through the older posts. Now I have Gene and myself both in hot water. He may have misunderstood something I said or even wrote.
In England, descendents of the animals Limbury Fan ( or Fanny as she appears to have been registered and then re-registered,) are included in their original population project. It seems to be recognized that during the war years there were challenges with the registry and with farm records with so many men off to war. Most people were involved in the war effort in some manner. Were earlier records clear that the breeder only had animals in his herd of full pedigree I think there would be circumstantial evidence that leans heavier in favor of omission and error, but this is not the case. The breeder owned cattle that were also admitted as foundation inspected. The categories have always been determined with absolute fairness based on recorded pedigree records, and I have always been one who believes that until there is scientific or document evidence available then the original pedigree must be respected. We can rumor and guess but the pedigree must be honored. Legacy animals have complete pedigree records. The Parndon Bullfinch record is missing an entry. Until we can find some evidence to give an answer to the question. . . .it would not be reasonable to declare that pedigree equal to others that are complete.
In the case of Saltaire Platinum, it is scientifically obvious there was an error in registration. The granddam, Godstone Esmeralda was registered as a horned cow from two horned parents in the birth records and in the registration records which stemmed from it. THEN. . . .. . . at a later time . . . . . . . when polled animals were born. . . . .. . the original entry came into question. Although DNA testing was developed in the 1950's and in use by breed registries by the late 1980's and early 1990's, there was never a request for a genetic evaluation according to some who were involved. I see no reason this issue cannot be resolved and rectified with modern science and evaluation and it should be. It the right and honorable thing for DCS not only to correct what I believe was an error in judgement in permitting a declaration of novel mutation, but to correct the other errors in this pedigree as this bull has such impact on the breed.
Judy
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Post by cascade on Jan 6, 2016 1:58:59 GMT
Translation: Holes in your own pedigrees are ok, but holes in other folks' pedigrees are not ok.
All Dexters have tons of holes in their pedigrees and most "legacy" dexters have modern UK Imports.
By the way, the hole in Saltaire Platinum's distant pedigree appears to be a pure dexter.
Can you prove otherwise?
If not pure dexter, what breed do you have proof of?
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Post by bruff64 on Jan 6, 2016 2:19:34 GMT
Polled upgrade is what it is Kirk. Can't get away from that. Red Lowlines is what ya got there buddy. Priced about the same as well. At least with pure Lowlines you wouldn't have to defend the deception behind your faux Dexters
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Post by cascade on Jan 6, 2016 3:54:15 GMT
All Dexters have holes in their old pedigrees and have upgrades from other breeds. Dexter horns come from other breeds. These "Traditionally" Horned Dexters look like they were upgraded from giant cattle breeds  |
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Post by bruff64 on Jan 6, 2016 12:19:34 GMT
True Short Dexters have horns, Lowlines don't. Pretty simple.
And, by the way, having owned Oxen of other breeds during my life I can tell you that any ox of any breed that is nearing 8-10 years of age would be much larger than any of it's breed counterparts.
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Post by lakeportfarms on Jan 6, 2016 13:52:31 GMT
As bruff64 said, steers seem to keep growing and growing past the point that their bull counterparts stop. The same goes for their horns. Texas Longhorn steers have significantly larger bodies and horns, as an example.
At the 2006 Horn Showcase:
The Texas Longhorn bull with the widest horns (total horn measurement) was Wyoming Warpaint, at 96 1/4"
The Texas Longhorn steer with the widest horns (total horn measurement) was Gilbralter at 126 1/2"
The Texas Longhorn bull with the widest horns (tip-to-tip measurement) was Superbowl, at 76"
The Texas Longhorn steer with the widest horns (tip-to-tip measurement) was Watson 101, at 101"
"The horns of steers continue to grow at a reasonable rate throughout life, because the low levels of testosterone in steers allow the growth plate of the inner bony core to remain unossified".
Could we see some of your 10 year old polled Dexter steers?
Nice try Kirk, but FAIL
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Post by jamshundred on Jan 6, 2016 17:25:44 GMT
Kirk is like most of our politicians in measures of deceit. I do hope his nose does not grow in the percentage equivalent of the Longhorn steers. We shall have to send him a Dexter oxen cart in which to "steer" it around.
Judy
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.... Who Knows ....... We have a 25% chance on a red calf here at any time. Soooo .... Keep listening cause you'll probably here us if we get one. 
