Facebook thread

[jamshundred]

I am posting a FB thread because, yet again, a member of ADCA leadership, ( sometimes it is their fawning lemmings) took my name in vain.

I am calling out this person for deceit.  

As a preamble, for those not aware, *I* had the idea and worked with UCD to devise the direct test accounts so owners had control over their results.   Once it was implemented the results that were tested through Legacy were placed in the account of anyone who requested, (even results where Legacy had requested samples and paid for the testing) and the owners had their results at hand to do with as they pleased.  This is the system in place currently for anyone testing through Legacy who wishes to have a direct account as well. 

Meanwhile, ADCA members who were originally only permitted to test at the Texas lab,  a private equine research laboratory set up by Gus Cothran (yet represented to members as if it had the same business model as UCD of being governed and overseen by Texas A&M University), permitted Gus Cothran to use their member's samples in his private research, and ADCA member's samples were contracted out by ADCA to a research facility (well known for cloning animals)  for ANY research or use.  ANY!   No parameters.  No concern for the ownership rights of their members.   

In the thread below you will see comments about "ownership and control".   There is NOT a person making those comments who do not have control of any testing they did through Legacy.  It is yet another vile misrepresentation of the truth. 

There is additonal research needed in the Dexter breed to investigate if there is  Stockholm syndrome present in those who become members of Dexter leadership.   Eerily uncanny how those I have known personally change when they enter ADCA leadership.  

I do not know why anyone continues to register with ADCA.  If you want to participate in an association which you think is beneficial to the breed. . . . . then GO to PDCA and participate and join in their effort for the breed and it's breeders. PDCA includes.   ADCA excludes.    ADCA would not permit PDCA or Legacy owners to show at numerous fairs across this country.   How is that good for the breed they are caretaking?   Any association that gets involved with ADCA has to EXCLUDE.   They have done it with  Missouri Dexter Breeders, which is now just an arm of ADCA,  and they are now trying to take over Ohio Valley Dexter Breeders.  They tried to get Legacy and PDCA excluded at last years show.  Most Dexter owners are not aware.  It never makes the minutes.
****************************************************************

Louise Ball

March 13 at 8:38pm

I was after some information from folks as to turnaround times from the different labs over in US and in the other countries on here. From the time that the hair sample is received, how long on average do you have to wait till you receive your results back?

I am interested in all DNA labs, UCD TAM, Igenity (Neogen) Zoetis, Van Haeringen, Massey (if any New Zealanders read this) and any other labs people use.

Any info would be much appreciated


Lesa Kinnamon Reid

Lesa Kinnamon Reid I use UCD. It is about 10 days, sometimes less, from the day I put the hair samples in the mail until the day I receive test results via email.


Louise Ball

Louise Ball How long would it take to get there in the mail?



Melissa Templeton Sterling

Melissa Templeton Sterling My experience is only with UCD and so far from time they receive sample to results is 4 business days


Louise Ball

Louise Ball Great turnaround time.


Catherine Hall Dal Nogare

Catherine Hall Dal Nogare That's my experience as well. I used TAMU once and the time was very similar.


Melissa Templeton Sterling

Melissa Templeton Sterling I will not use TAMU, we had an experience with the wrong results on many different tests from them on a heifer we were purchasing, when we started our herd and calving I setup an account with UCD independently and have had all of our tests done through them.



Ryan Parker

Ryan Parker We use TAMU. I usually have email results 7 - 10 days after sending samples in; paper copies in the mail a week after the email.


Janice McKim

Janice McKim same here, a piece of it is how long it takes the tail hairs to get to them


Ryan Parker

Ryan Parker I agree. Forgot to mention that I always use a Priority Mail envelope, so it gets to them in two days. That may help us get quicker results.


Kimberly Jepsen

Kimberly JepsenKimberly is an administrator in this group. About 7 business days from UCD


Judy Sponaugle

Judy Sponaugle You should consider using Legacy services Kimberly. Most Legacy users have their results within 4-5 business days. Legacy transfers results to those who wish to maintain direct accounts. Win-Win.



Louise Ball

Louise Ball Any times on Neogen?


Ryan Parker

Ryan Parker We've only done Igenity (Neogen) twice, so I don't have a lot of experience with them, but it took a couple weeks to get the results.

d

Louise Ball

Louise Ball LOL I am still waiting on email reply from them from last December. I had one reply last month, and they were to get back to me :-) All I was looking for was a phone number to ring.


Ryan Parker

Ryan Parker I have a customer service number of 1-877-443-6489. That's toll free in the US. I'm not sure how it would work if you called it. You're not in the States, right?


Ryan Parker

Ryan Parker Here's one of their sample holders. It has a regular phone number on it. Maybe you could use it.


Louise Ball

Louise Ball Yes, that is correct we are in Australia. that is why I emailed them trying to get the best number to call for the questions that I had for them.

Thankyou for those numbers, I will give them a whirl.


Write a reply...



Barbara Netti

Barbara Netti Louise Ball, one thing I would like to mention that I feel is very important. I have tested with both Texas A&M and UC Davis. I feel that UC Davis had the faster turn around time at 8 days as opposed to Texas A&M. The biggy for me is that I can go onto the UC Davis website at any time and look at all of the animals I have tested there, plus all the tests that I have done on each animal and those results. Make a copy of the report at the same time.


Louise Ball

Louise Ball What's that Barb?

Manage


Barbara Netti

Barbara Netti Sorry Louise, I hit the return key before I was done posting.


Louise Ball

Louise Ball Barbara Netti , my usual trick, my fingers can never keep up. LOL


Louise Ball

Louise Ball Having this online file would be very handy. We have that with the company here in Australia that I test our dogs with, and I really like it.


Louise Ball

Louise Ball These turnaround times that you are getting are very good.


Susan Lea

Susan Lea Especially from overseas, being able to access your account online would be huge for me. Good point, Barbara.


Tammara Adams

Tammara Adams We JUST did UC Davis through Legacy. Under a week for all our labs to be back via email. Did parent verification, sire and dam. a1A2 , Color black Carries dun and doesn't carry red , horned . This was our 1 st


Louise Ball

Louise Ball Very impressive.


Tammara Adams

Tammara Adams Louise Ball we didn't test chondro or PHa but got obligate negative certificates on both. That may have saved a little time. I'm not sure.


Lesa Kinnamon Reid

Lesa Kinnamon Reid We've tested through Legacy. Now we own our own test results by choosing ADCA as our testing affiliation. Turn around times are the same for both. Costs are also the same.



Louise, just to explain, UCD allows identifiable groups to join together and get discounted pricing on tests. The group of people you are identifying with is called your "affiliation."



People that choose the ADCA as their affiliation get group pricing on their tests and legally own all their test results. No "middle man." If you want results posted on the ADCA online pedigree pages, you must email the registrar your test results. The ADCA leaves their members in charge of handling their own testing and their own dissemination of all test result info. Your cows. Your results. You are in control.



When we affiliated with Legacy, Judy owned our test results and got a copy of every testing paper. She published all results on her website by default.



Online menus and screens are customized for ADCA members (no tests are offered that would be irrelevant to Dexters). The lab also works with the association to report parentage results to our registrar to assure our registration requirements are fulfilled and our pedigrees are correct (just sending the registrar a statement about the results, no actual tests are sent to the association).



Since you don't live in the US, I thought you might appreciate an explanation 🙂

Susan Lea

Susan Lea Lesa, like you, it’s very important to us that we own and control our own results.


Hans Peterson

Hans Peterson How is this test not owned by me? I test through Legacy. I make the payment for testing, register with Legacy for $5, and the results are e mailed to me, the Dexter is automatically registered with Legacy with all of the test information with zero additional work from me, and the test results are in my name (owned by me) and accessible through my UCDavis account. There is no cumbersome registration process with clicking on "send report" from the UCDavis account, then e mailing test results separately in order to have it listed on the certificate or online pedigree. I don't get all the secrecy some seem to be so concerned about. I'm a firm believer in transparency, and frankly don't care if people have access to see any and all information about Dexters that I either own or those that I have bred.

Lesa Kinnamon Reid Hans Peterson Just explaining my experience with legacy. I simply don't want anyone else to control of have access to or publish information about my animals except me. It's the same with my farm. We have gates. We often have visitors. But no one comes onto my property or interacts with my Dexters without my consent. It's not that we are secretive or uninviting. We just are not going to hand over the responsibility of our lives or Dexters to anyone else. And we don't believe that giving others control over any aspect of our lives is good. But everyone is different. We join groups that we want to join. We affiliate with folks we enjoy affiliating with. And we partner with those we trust. I figure that's what everyone does.


Hans Peterson I don't give unrestricted physical access to our farm or animals either, and I think most people would agree with that. However, raising registered animals, and promoting them as such I believe requires more transparency, and results should always be available for others to see. I'd happily allow all of my test results, including genotype information, to be available to others to review. What harm could come of that?
ManageHans Peterson How is this test not owned by me? I test through Legacy. I make the payment for testing, register with Legacy for $5, and the results are e mailed to me, the Dexter is automatically registered with Legacy with all of the test information with zero ad...See More


Lesa Kinnamon Reid

Lesa Kinnamon Reid Hans Peterson Just explaining my experience with legacy. I simply don't want anyone else to control of have access to or publish information about my animals except me. It's the same with my farm. We have gates. We often have visitors. But no one comes...See More


Hans Peterson

Hans Peterson I don't give unrestricted physical access to our farm or animals either, and I think most people would agree with that. However, raising registered animals, and promoting them as such I believe requires more transparency, and results should always be...See More

Manage


Tammara Adams
Tammara Adams Louise Ball we didn't test chondro or PHa but got obligate negative certificates on both. That may have saved a little time. I'm not sure.


Lesa Kinnamon Reid

Lesa Kinnamon Reid We've tested through Legacy. Now we own our own test results by choosing ADCA as our testing affiliation. Turn around times are the same for both. Costs are also the same.

Louise, just to explain, UCD allows identifiable groups to join together and ...See More


Susan Lea

Susan Lea Lesa, like you, it’s very important to us that we own and control our own results.


Hans Peterson

Hans Peterson How is this test not owned by me? I test through Legacy. I make the payment for testing, register with Legacy for $5, and the results are e mailed to me, the Dexter is automatically registered with Legacy with all of the test information with zero ad...See More


Lesa Kinnamon Reid

Lesa Kinnamon Reid Hans Peterson Just explaining my experience with legacy. I simply don't want anyone else to control of have access to or publish information about my animals except me. It's the same with my farm. We have gates. We often have visitors. But no one comes...See More


Hans Peterson

Hans Peterson I don't give unrestricted physical access to our farm or animals either, and I think most people would agree with that. However, raising registered animals, and promoting them as such I believe requires more transparency, and results should always be...See More


Louise Ball

Louise Ball Lesa Kinnamon Reid , Lesa, do you have to be a member of ADCA to be affiliated with them and get the discounted prices?


Lesa Kinnamon Reid

Lesa Kinnamon Reid Louise Ball . . . I'll check on that for you


Louise Ball

Louise Ball Lesa Kinnamon Reid thankyou

[kaldakur]

Judy, I appreciate your work and dedication to the breed, even if others don't. I personally think that the automatic posting of test results to Legacy is a feature that makes my job keeping track of results easier (your database is much easier to use than my spreadsheet , and good information to have available for future (and current!) owners and researchers. If one doesn't want their results shared and is paranoid about sharing them, that just gives me the impression that they have something to hide... I'm happy to share my results automatically. What's wrong with knowing who carries PHA? Who is a red or dun carrier? Who is short or tall? Who is A1 or A2? The tests are all tools we can use to seek out what we need to improve areas in our cattle in our own herds. Transparency is good for the breed here - no matter what the results are. I'd want my cattle's information to be available to the breed if something happened to me, and by Legacy holding that information in the registry for me, it's there if needed.

Who gives people access to their cattle or property without permission anyway? That's a completely different argument, not even relevant to the topic at hand.

We are no longer using ADCA. We are tired of a registry that continues to bash others and does nothing for me as a smallholder that doesn't show or exhibit - we just want to preserve what's left of the breed. We initially supported them with our memberships and registration fees and all they did for us was knock the part of the breed we cared about most - the preservation effort.

We have genotyped all our cattle, and will continue to do so, enabling a trail for any future owner to follow if they HAVE to have an animal registered with ADCA but we will no longer support them. We are using Legacy and PDCA for registrations. We are just one member, but if enough "ones" get together they can make a difference. Support the registry (or registries) that work for you, not ones that undermine others efforts.

[Deleted]

It was not even a true statement. With Legacy you choose if you want your test results displayed online or not.

[lakeportfarms]

Well said Amy. That was my response to Lesa Reid as well. Why not have results displayed unless there is something to hide? I too appreciate the ease at which the information is automatically entered with Legacy. No e mailing of tests, no "click to send to ADCA" for the genotype. I can't tell you how many times I've clicked on send report, then submit a registration, only to get an e mail saying that ADCA hasn't received the report that week so they can't register. So I go through the process again. They won't even accept a e mail of the genotype, even forwarded directly from my e-mail from UCDavis, (I don't care if they see it or not) to try to expedite the registration.

[jamshundred]

Amy-  Thanks. 
Mike - Legacy does now enter all results on the pedigree sheet.  This is stated on the information page.  It was very time consuming to ask each time if the owner wanted their results published when everyone always DID.  Many especially like having the information on their registration certificates, and it also saves them costs when testing because of Legacy's obligate reports.  At all times, the best interests of the breed and it's owner's are the only priority for Legacy.
Genebo-   You are always far too complimentary to me.  I do have warts.  One even has a hair growing from it. 

I do not visit FB except fo enter something on the Legacy page, or the historical pages, or when someone suggests a discussion they think I'd be interested in, and then I will use browse a bit and perhaps make a comment here or there.  I do not like FB, wish Dexter owners would get off of it as I am deeply troubled that the benfits they believe they gain with that format are really a threat to the rights of all. 

I received an email telling me of this thread. ( THANKS!).  For the sake of clarity. . . . . . you may note that early in this printed thread I have made a comment to Ms. Jepson.  That was done AFTER the entire discussion as far as I posted it here.  With FB you can jump in and reply to comments anywhere in a discussion.    If you notice, the first comment by Ms. Reid was fine.  Certainly OK with me.   Then Ms. Adams made a comment which included Legacy and ADCA leadership cannot stand to see a positive comment regarding me or Legacy.  You will notice that is where my name came into the discussion.   Almost laughable in the transparency.   I want to say that during the period of time when Ms. Reid used Legacy services and was ALWAYS very complimentary of the service she received, we had a good friendly relationship.  She never once expressed any concerns about anything.  It is a shame that the ADCA atmosphere of power and control, and pettiness seems to always filter down and become commonplace in their leadership.  There was another member of their current leadership with whom I had a great relationship.  I spent considerable time trying to chase down connecting animals and guiding this "newbie".  And then a position in leadership . . . . . and almost immediately a snide comment of Legacy on a chat group.  Gotta get in those hits if you want to be accepted in the in-crowd.   

I want members to know that ADCA is a dreadful influence on this breed, and far be it from what they would have you believe, they have no concern for the rights of their members. . . . . . or they would never have removed every single one of them.    Members used to be able to unseat their Director by vote if they felt they were not being represented, they used to be able to bring to the table at an annual meeting agenda items they felt important, they could call a meeting of the leadership at any time to resolve issues, they had a voice in the nomination of executive officers.  EVERY RIGHT, the members had under the original Delaware filings were removed without discussion or vote of the membership and an OLIGARCY instituted to take over.  ADCA members have NO say in their organization they fund.  Only. . .. IF .  . .  .ADCA chooses to permit it.   

ADCA is EXCLUSIONARY.   They wish to have all the power and control and in order to do that they have to convince owners to support ADCA.   If you want to take back your breed and any say so at all in your Dexter BUSINESS, than this must be stopped.   ADCA needs to be stopped.    Here are some things I bet you didn't know.

Legacy has a breeder who lives in Iowa.  ( that you likely did know).   This breeder wished to show his Dexters at the IOWA State Fair.   ADCA had control of that show, first with a member of ADCA leadership on the fair committee, than another ADCA member, and refused to permit either Legacy or PDCA members to participate.  The member with whom I had lengthy discussions readily admitted he couldn't do anything about it because ADCA would NOT let him.  ( I have the emails to back up my assertions. and it is obvious he didn't want to rock his ADCA boat.    Missouri Dexter breeders were once an independent group of breeders . . . . . they are now simply an arm of ADCA.  ADCA says "jump", and MDBA says, " how high".  Their leadership now stays intwined.    MDBA will not permit Legacy or PDCA to show in that venue because ADCA will not allow it.     Owners, do YOU think this is good for our breed?  

Back when the Legacy preservation effort began, Legacy would check pedigrees and issue certificates to owner of LH animals giving them permission to use the Legacy herd identifier.  There were very few animals and it had several benefits for the preservation effort, and made it easy for owners to research and locate these Dexters.   Did you ever wonder why the oligarchy instituted a rule you can only have ONE herd name?  LOL.  Yep.  right answer.   ADCA has NO legal right to control your Dexter business or more than one of them.   They went even further.   A Legacy breeder collected his bull.   He PAID and submitted his bull for advertising on the AI page.   ADCA arbitrarily CHANGED the name of his AI bull, removing the Legacy identifier.   

If you are supporting ADCA, you are supporting this type of EXCLUSIVE conduct which has at all times been directed towards helping one segment of this breed and harming another.   I am puzzled that preservation breeders continue to support ADCA in any way, when they have worked against those breeders at every turn.  Tradition and sentiment is one thing. . . . . . . . your Dexter breed and business interests are quite another.  Why are YOU ceding your power and control over your interests to an organization that has worked against you at every opportunity?  Do you think it is an accident that only 8-10 percent of existing Dexters do not descend from a single grade bull?   One more question for you. . . . . .  HOW MANY referrals of interested buyers have been referred to you over your years of breeding from the ADCA office.  WHO gets those inquiries from persons who want to buy?