Association membership question

[yellowhouse]

As I stated earlier, we are new to Dexters. The first cattle we purchased were registered with ADCA, so we joined ADCA. I now know there are three Dexter breed registries. For the purposes of marketing and selling our cattle, are there advantages in belonging to and registering our Dexters in the other two registries? All opinions are welcome and I would especially like to hear input from breeders that currently register their Dexters in more than one registry. Thanks.

[Deleted]

I have registered with all 3. I stopped registering with ADCA soon after I started. they refused to Acknowledge Legacy and did everything in there power against Legacy. I called it quits when I was lied to directly by the president in person at an AGM. I register with Legacy and more recently have started duel registering with the PDCA. 

It is going to depend on what your goals are and what animals you have. If you are wanting to preserve Legacy and traditional Dexters. Then Legacy is where you want to be. You may also want to register with PDCA. PDCA is under new leadership in the last few years. and is very open to the preservation efforts. The PDCA does not discriminate for or against the preservation animals. If you are wanting modern or polled then I can see you may have a benefit with ADCA. PDCA as well as Legacy will both welcome you to register the modern ones as well but I can see why polled breeders believe they benefit from the ADCA stance. The PDCA does have a lot more modern ones registered then traditional for that matter so does Legacy that is representative of what is out there. 

ADCA = Pro polled you will be fighting an uphill battle if you want preservation animals  
PDCA = takes no stance on polled vs horned. better prices , better service fully supports those who want preservation animals
Legacy = this is the one you want to be in with preservation animals, best price

You can register with Legacy and PDCA both for less then you can register with ADCA

full disclosure I am the Legacy Dexter Cattle Breeders President and a PDCA regional director. Legacy Dexter Cattle Breeders is separate from the registry we are a group of preservation breeders.

[genebo]

ADCA and PDCA are associations that provide for their members, the people. Each of them maintains a registry. The Legacy Dexter Cattle Registry, LDCR for short and also known just as Legacy, is not an association. It has no members and provides few services for the owners of the Dexter cattle that are registered in its registry.

The LDCR registry has its roots in the database of Dexter cattle that is maintained by the University of California, Davis Campus, known as UC Davis. The LDCR has an American registration list and a world-wide list. The American list began in 2004 and required a genotype and parentage verification of each Dexter and only accepted Dexters with Legacy or Traditional ancestry for a long time. Then, around 2010 or so the LDCR was opened up to allow Animals of Modern ancestry, with or without genotypes and parentage verification.

The American LDCR list allows registrants to optionally display a large assortment of DNA test results in the info section. An easily customizable search format makes it easy to find entries that you wish to find. If you are looking for a Traditional heifer, born within the last year, that is black but carries dun or red or both, then this is the place for you.

PDCA also allows owners to display their test results.

ADCA is the largest group of owners. If you are raising Dexters to sell, this will be your largest marketplace.

You can join both the ADCA and the PDCA. The ADCA doesn't like that and if you join the PDCA they impose certain limits on your rights within the association.

You don't need to join the LDCR, for the LDCR has no members. Just Dexter cattle. When you register a Dexter, you will have to provide the information about the breeder and owner, but neither of them pay dues. Registration is cheap. $5. A complete array of all the tests available for a Dexter is available, at the lowest prices available. You will be encouraged to have your Dexter genotyped and parentage verified, but it is not mandatory.

If you are interested in preserving the Dexter breed, then you should not only register every one of your Dexters with LDCR, you should also join the Legacy Dexter Cattle Breeders. They have a similar name to the LDCR and use use and support the LDCR. It is free to join the Legacy Dexter Cattle Breeders. They put out an excellent newsletter that you will love.

[cascade]

ADCA has been here since 1957 (and its predecessor was here before that).

The other startup registries have only been around a very short period of time and they depend on too few people and they will likely fail sooner than later.

I have found no need to use any other registry except ADCA, although I do enjoy the legacy historical database for researching history.

If you're serious about preservation, then read the original 1890 Irish Dexter breed description, and follow it in making your selection and culling decisions.

[jamshundred]

Kirk, That is technically misinformation

ADCA, as YOU know it today was established in 2004.  It is an association which maintains a registry.

PDCA was established in 2004  It is an association which maintains a registry.

Legacy was established in 2004 and is a registry and historical database.

Legacy is a registry only.The purpose of recording and tracking pedigrees is the responsbility of a registry.  A registry is the hook by which associations maintain their memberships which funds their associations which are often self-promoting with little effort to address issues of the breed.  ( For instance, mean bulls in a breed which advertises docile, pet-like bulls).

Of the three the ONLY registry which has NOT experienced internal power struggles and strife is Legacy.  Legacy is a privately held business.

ADCA was originally established in 1957 by the Logsdon family.  (Peerless) and until 1987 the registry was overseen by family members, the association by an elected board.   in 1987 there was an internal power struggle, and the original founders, ( whom I might add preserved and saved the Dexter Breed in America), threw out the founding family,.  Ugly and dirty power struggle.  The founding family, and their herd, Peerless,  ceased to register in ADCA, and the most famous Dexter herd in America was lost to the breed.

Previous to 2004, the membership had control of their registry. In 2004 ADCA had another internal power struggle. Ugly and divisive and this struggle brought about the fracture of ADCA, and half the membership walked and created the Purebred Dexter Cattle Association. (PDCA) The new board members of ADCA. .. . . .changed the governing authority (illegally because the membership was NOT given a vote and it was required by the legal documents), changes included the legal documents, and the rules and regulations, bylaws, etc.,  removing ALL the rights of the membership.  .. . creating an OLIGARCHY.  ( For instance. . .  Russia is an oligarchy).   The only rights a member of ADCA has, would be a right the board votes to grant.   

PDCA .  In 2010 PDCA experienced an internal struggle and there was a change of management, and many members left PDCA.  There was a second internal struggle which replaced existing leadership about three years ago. ADCA and PDCA are only as secure as their leadership's internal cooperation.


Legacy, in a very short period of time, accomplished more than ADCA in the course of their history of Dexter cattle.A list of Legacy accomplishments:




Legacy alerted the breeders to a loss of early bloodlines and began the preservation effort.  At the time upgraded imports were 93% of all registrations and growing.

Legacy began DNA testing for registration and established the DNA database at UCD.  ADCA refused to cooperate with either effort, including refusing to use the premier laboratory in America which developed DNA testing in cattle, and was diligent in trying to destroy Legacy and the preservation effort.

legacy negotiated with Australia for permission for chondro testing for UCD,  A2 Corp for permission for individual owners to test (not permitted under the business model at the time), and permission for UCD licensing, and then worked to get permission from Dr Beever for PHA testing.  Once successful, Legacy negotiated prices for ALL Dexter owners that were less than half what they were paying elsewhere.

After a period of time, in an effort to unite the breed testing at UCD, whose accuracy record far surpassed other venues. Legacy worked with UCD to develop direct testing accounts at prices negotiated by Legacy for Legacy testing.

Legacy modernized the registration and record keeping process for online entries.  ( Might add here that ADCA has been promising their members updated registration for six years.  Tick-tock). 

Legacy established the first access to UK historical records records on the internet for the first 50 years of UK  and Irish connections to American Dexters.
Legacy never once stopped working for the interests of Dexter owners......worldwide..

[cddexter]

Thanks, Judy.  Pretty fair summation.

I just love the synchronicity:  the very people who overthrew the Logsdons in 1987 were the ones who in turn didn't want to lose their control over the assn, so left and created the PDCA in 2004.  It's hard to find altruism.  thx. c.

[cascade]

The American Dexter Cattle Association started serving members under that name (ADCA) in 1957 when the name of the predecessor "American Kerry and Dexter Club" was dropped.

The ADCA started as a fairly simple club. Along the way, as membership grew and as legal requirements grew, they took steps to keep up.

In 1977, the American Dexter Cattle Association (ADCA) became a non-profit Delaware corporation. Ten geographical regions were established, each represented by a member of the Board of Directors, elected for a term of
three years by the members in good standing of the respective region.

At each step of progress toward managing the ADCA as a well-run non-profit organization with bylaws, and standard operating procedures, there was some resistance. For example, up until 2004, the individual filling the role of registrar behaved as though she personally owned the records and she would make registration decisions based on her own personal opinions. She even attempted to take personal possession of the records, putting the Association at great risk

The ADCA board started taking further steps to document all bylaws and standard operating procedures (as all good non-profits should do), and replace the registrar with a paid position who could simply follow the documented rules.

These changes upset a few people, but most people who left the ADCA have returned after seeing how good these changes were for the organization.

The ADCA now operates very smoothly. Members rotate in and out of officer and director positions. Fellow members vote them in and out. It works just how good non-profits are supposed to work.

That's why the ADCA will still be here 10, 20, 40, 80 years from now, long after the basement startups go under.

I have no allegiance to any particular organization. I'm just going with the ADCA because they are the ONLY organization I can trust with my Dexter records over the coming decades, because they have the structure and people to do it. The other organizations are at high risk of failure.

[jamshundred]

Kirk,

I lived through 2004.  You are repeating pablum that has been fed to you.   ADCA does not work smoothly now or ever.  Perhaps you are just not aware of internal strife in leadership and/ or with members. 

AND.......there is absolutely NO excuse for removing the rights of members to make their own choices for their herds, and their association.  

AND....they keep lying to their members, ( the published minutes are NOT verbatim, wonder why)?

AND....still no updated modernized registry as repeatedly promised for YEARS.  

AND....are they still making money off their members via Texas on chondro tests?

ANd........the biggest and most egregious “and” of all.  The excuse for Lucifer, and Platinum, and Outlaw, and Berry and more, was a lack of a rule to prevent the importing of upgraded cattle.    THIRTY plus years later.........and still no rule.  American breeders may NOTdevelop pure bred Dexter cattle on their farms to compete  with upgraded imports and ADCA still permits this unfair competition.  WHY?

[cddexter]

Judy, let's not go through all this again...the ADCA had rules. You didn't like them so complained and created new definitions. The ADCA rules didn't meet your criteria, and now we have two associations and a privately held registry under your personal control. I think all would agree you've done a lot for the breed, let's not restart this dog fight for the umpteenth time. c.

[yellowhouse]

Hi Judy, you said......

THIRTY plus years later.........and still no rule. American breeders may NOTdevelop pure bred Dexter cattle on their farms to compete with upgraded imports and ADCA still permits this unfair competition. WHY

I don’t understand what this means. If I may ask, can you explain please.

[jamshundred]

Carol, I didn't start the conversation regarding the merit of registries.  Kirk does NOT get free rein as long as my keyboard has keys.

Assume he knew exactly what he was doing.   He did.

[jamshundred]

Yellowhouse,

The first Dexters came to America from Ireland at the beginning of the 1900's, and they were registered in Ireland.  Dexters became so popular almost the entire Irish herd was exported primarily to England before the end of the second decade of the 1900's.  The Royal Dublin Society ceased to register Dexters as most of them were being registered in the Dexter Cattle Society ( DCS ) and owned by UK breeders.

DCS has always permitted outcrossing.  In the mid 1940's they established the appendix registry which worked like this.

Cross a registered Dexter bull with any breed of cow,  and a female calf could be registered in appendix A.
Breed the appendix A cow to a registered Dexter bull and the female calf could be registered in appendix B
Breed the appendix B cow to a registered Dexter bull and the female calf could be registered in appendix C
Breed the appendix C cow to a registered Dexter bull and the female calf would be entered in the general Dexter registry as a "purebred" Dexter.

These purebred cattle were to meet the registration requirements of color, height, and have horns.

All the imported bulls, since 1986, ( other than Woodmagic animals to Canada, with offspring to the US) descend from the appendix registry, with the exception of Lucifer of Knotting.

Lucifer of Knotting was a "purebred" bull at the time of his birth and registration who descended from the " Experimental" breeding project.  The first animal registered in the regular herd books from this project was registered with Angus and Jersey parentage, but it seems it was widely known there were other breeds in the effort that was thought to be a resolution for bull dog calves.  It wasn't.

Speaking of Lucifer.  There has already been discussion regarding his demise and why.  I will add information to that discussion later.    There absolutely should be discussion regarding this bloodline and the associations are failing in their duty to their membership by not addressing it.  It is absolute truth, I have a list of animals, and  the list began when a friend of mine had a Lucifer bull who was the first Dexter of which I was ever frightened.  I was convinced he would be killed by that bull, and was relieved when he moved to another state and the bull was sold for butcher.  I just thought he was a very dangerous bull, and an anomaly.

Then I began to hear the stories and experience other bulls from that line.  For instance, while speaking to a breeder in PA, he told me a story of a young bull that took down his vet. and commented the vet would have been killed if the bull had horns or if he had not been there to stop the attack.   I looked up the bull.  Yep. Lucifer son.   As recently as this summer, I had a well-known breeder relate to me having a young bull who went stark raving logo and had to be destroyed.  Lucifer lines.  I have a long story about a family in Virginia with whom I was friends.  Their Lucifer cow calved a bull calf.  They needed him picked up from the farm as they had a petting farm where disabled and challenged children were brought to interact with the animals.  I was busy and there were more than a couple requests before I could get there.  The bull was loco.  He attacked anything that moved.  I kept him on a trailer for three days until I could get a butcher appt.  I would put hay in the rear door, and slam it shut when he charged, and then run around to the side door to put in a bucket of water before he could charge that direction.   This bull mirrored the behavior described to me by Fred Chesterley regarding a bull he saw in Canada, son of Lucifer, who was sold to the USA and used for breeding.  Eventually the owner was charged and treed by this bull.   A Director in Virginia put down two decendants of Lucifer.  ( He just wouldn't listen when I warned him).  One of them charged and hit the owner, and another time a differnent one went after his brother and put him over the fence.   I have a friend who raises this bloodline.  I refuse to help him sell bulls.  He has to beef or haul them to the sale barn.  I was helping him herd some cows into a barn where they would be channeled into an alley way for loading. . . . . . and out in the paddock a bull went after me and I was saved only by a feed wagon I was able to jump on , and still the bull caught me on the wrist and I was warning him away from me.   This is only a few.   It is impossible for me to believe that breeders of this bloodline have never witnessed a problematic bull from their breedings.  There have been too many reports of them, on FB, on chat groups, to me personally.   Are they all loco or aggressive?   NO.  But one is enough.