No PV required by ADCA

[jamshundred]

I am still trying to wrap my brain around this one! !

I had a case I needed information to complete and looked up the animal on the ADCA pedigree site.

The Dexter calf said, " Genotype on file"              

The sire said, " Genotype on file"

The grandsire said, " Sire qualified"

In an effort to discover if this Dexter's sire did not qualify I wrote to inquire why the reference did not say, " Sire qualified" since there was a gentoype for the sire.  ( And note the sire was not marked as qualifying to HIS sire).

I received a reply from my inquiry to an ADCA rep.   ADCA does NOT require parentage verification.  The only requirement is that males be DNA tested.  ( Genotype).  I was also sent a copy of the "official" rule. 

I happened to know of a case where an animal was tested through Legacy and only the genotype was reported and ALL the paperwork was returned to the owner stating the calf had to be parentage qualified.   So, which is it?

I wrote back to the rep with this information only to be told yet again that there is NO requirement in ADCA that genotyped animals must parentage confirm to their tested sire or dam!  

This is simply non-sense.  Surely one would hope their professional consultant and advisor would tell them this is nonsense? 

The sole purpose of DNA testing is to make a permanent record of identity and to confirm parentage.  Why would they NOT require offspring to be parentage qualified?  I thought the sole entire purpose of the effort was to insure integrity in the registry?

I agree that testing only bulls is not a gateway to integrity. . . but it is half-way there.   The debate is that confirming parentage on only the sire side means nothing unless the dam is also compared.  That is simply not true.  The aim is to identify exclusion.

Any exclusion in a parentage evaluation is just that! They don't even identify "by requirement" those who do notqualify to the sire, unless the owner voluntarily cedes the information and the ability to register a calf with parentage in error. 

The main fault of ADCA is that they do not avail themselves the opportunity to consult with those who have experience and knowledge for that is a threat to those in their midst who do not. . . . .  instead the inexperienced and unprofessional in the power structure make some of the dumbest decisions known to the cattle industry!

Judy 

[cascade]

Many/most registries of all sorts of purebred animals still do NOT yet require DNA parentage testing. It's relatively new and many small breeders don't see the advantage of doing it... especially if they only have 1 bull and 2 cows in their backyard. It takes time for any large organization to gradually sell members on the idea of DNA parentage testing and to gradually move members willingly toward full parentage testing. I've heard that the ADCA has discussed a plan to gradually get there in a way that's as friendly as possible to members, and genotyping bulls is a good first step.

In the meantime, buyers who want fully parentage verified animals are welcome to request verification from the breeder as part of the purchase.

[jamshundred]

I wondered why no one commented on this!  I guess I was not clear.

I was working on a Legacy registration and verifying information with the ADCA online pedigree site.  A bull I checked showed "genotype on file".   I looked at his sire and it said "genotype on file"   I wondered why the first did not say "sire qualified" since both had genotypes on file and that raised more questions so I sent this email to an ADCA director.

On Nov 11, 2014, at 16:49, [e-mail] wrote:



This bull was born in 2014 and has a genotype. ADCA 022284 On the ADCA site he is shown as " genotype on file". As I understand it, he should have been parentage qualified based on his date of birth and the fact that his sire's genotype is on also on file.



The sire is: Thomas' Ry Red Rocket ADCA15500. This bull shows a genotype on file, and he also is NOT confirmed to his sire who has a genotype on file.



Could you explain to me the reason there is no sire qualification on these two animals? Or is it something pending?



What is the ADCA procedure for recording animals whose sire does NOT qualify? I assume there are two answers; (1) If it is a new registration for application, and (2) if it is a recorded registration.



In the case of a historical animal whose parentage is NOT confirmed, what the ADCA procedure for recording this information?



Thanks,

Judy Sponaugle

Legacy Registry

I received a reply stating that ADCA does NOT require parent verification with a link to the ADCA website and pertinent rule/regulation.    My reaction was to think my question was not clear  I wrote back seeking to clarify, and related an actual known incident where a bull calf tested through Legacy was submitted to ADCA for registration, rejected by the registrar and paperwork returned to the owner because the UCD form did not include the sire confirmation.

I mean. . . . does it make sense to require bulls to be genotyped for registration and then not require them to be parentage confirmed to their sire which is also gentoyped? 

I was told that this was brought up with the board, clarified, and that NO, parentage verification is NOT required and that the registrar had been instructed of this and was NOT to require proof of parentage.

There you have it.  I suppose it IS something to have the genotype. . . but to not confirm negates the purpose in the first place and they are requiring an expense of owners that makes no sense.

Judy

[jamshundred]

Many/most registries of all sorts of purebred animals still do NOT yet require DNA parentage testing. It's relatively new and many small breeders don't see the advantage of doing it... especially if they only have 1 bull and 2 cows in their backyard. It takes time for any large organization to gradually sell members on the idea of DNA parentage testing and to gradually move members willingly toward full parentage testing. I've heard that the ADCA has discussed a plan to gradually get there in a way that's as friendly as possible to members, and genotyping bulls is a good first step.

I was the first Dexter owner to begin genotyping and maintaining a parentage confirmed herd.  My herd was fully tested in 2004.  One reason was to maintain the integrity of my herd and the other was to protect my breeding and reputation by having pedigrees that could not be questioned by rumor or innuendo and especially the politics of the time.

Gene Bowen was the second Dexter owner to gentoype his herd  and Shaun Lord was the third.  They were the pioneers in the Legacy effort.

I still do NOT believe in mandatory genotype testing in the mainstream registries.   Legacy serves as a viable adjunct for both ADCA and PDCA for this effort, without the established associations closing their registries ( not an issue currently with PDCA) to owners who cannot afford to test.   I believe that ADCA should allow the market to set the standards as it naturally will as we have seen with chondro and PHA.   The only way to protect this breed is to manage it and not to dictate it.

There are other ways to accomplish the same thing without losing members or cattle but ADCA has never shown the ability to make good solid professional decisions over knee-jerk politcal ones so I don't expect them to figure it out . . . . and they absolutely do not consult outside persons in the breed with knowledge and experience.   As long as they keep trying to catch up to Legacy but do it with just enough difference to make it appear it is a fresh idea they will continue to offer to their members the same kind of mess we all just read in the Bulletin like those categories they want to print on certificates.  They need to learn KISS.

Judy


 

[lakeportfarms]

That was my question on the Facebook page...was any parentage verification required at all between the sire and their bull calves. It appears there is not!
Incredible that you can still take a bull calf today, genotype him, and then register him without qualifying him to the sire. What are they waiting for? I can only think of one example, a bull that is late registered (over 5 years of age) born to a registered sire that is not available for DNA testing. But this is a unique case that should be handled by the genetics committee.

Nobody seems to be interested in the idea I had about a tiered registration for the ADCA. Provide "LIMITED" registration status to Dexters not genotyped or tested/obligate for PHA/chondro. However, with the "limited" registration they should require tail hairs to be pulled and properly identified and stored by the owner so that the animal could be tested in the future. Then have various levels of tested registration status, starting with genotype (Bronze), then PHA and chondro (silver for one, gold for both) These are just examples, I suppose a numbering system could be used, but this only relates to tested status, not tested results as the current (on hold) proposal had.

This would allow owners to eventually upgrade their Dexters, either when finances permitted, or if the animal was sold and the new owner requested it. It has a philanthropic aspect to it. Let's say I was to purchase a small herd of Dexters along with the tail hairs of the calf, dam, and grand dam that happened to be all together but never tested...the tests would then be performed on three generations, and now the grand dam is genotyped at my expense and reported. How many other owners of progeny of the grand dam benefit from that? It could be many. You can see how this would snowball and eventually many gaps would be filled in. If a genotype alone is required without the option of continuing to register their Dexters, there may be many breeders who would just drop out and not bother any longer.