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Post by Jams Hundred on Apr 27, 2014 13:55:08 GMT
S.A. Walkup, breeder from Missouri submitted an article that was published in the most recent issues of both the ADCA Bulletin and the PDCA Jounal. Mrs. Walkup's article warned against current fads of selection in the breed. Good common sense.
I understand at least one red polled breed in the SW went ballastic and complained to the ADCA board, eliciting not only a personal apology that the article ever appeared in the first place, but assurances anything similar would never happen again! What was that again? A personal apology to a red polled breeder because another thoughtful breeder suggested the current fad could be costing quality Dexters to be culled for specific trait selection? How typical!
Those jumping on the red-polled bandwagon have little foresight IMO. They won't have anything "unique" after a short time since red to red makes red and polled is dominant. When the latest "something-different" fad wears itself out and the fields are full of upgraded red polled cattle. . . . . . there will be something new to catch the fadists eye. ( Black will likely be back!).
Folks, Ms. Walkup's article made lots of sense. What has been happening in America for the last 20 years has been nonsense. A unique and wonderful little breed of DWARF cattle has been so changed by greed and avarice that in most fields they are unrecognizable from a certain breed that wouldn't invite them for dinner!
Judy
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Post by genebo on Apr 29, 2014 18:55:08 GMT
I read the S.A. Walkup article in the PDCA Journal and loved it. I tried to find it on-line so I could quote from it.
Genebo
Paradise Farm
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Post by wvdexters on May 1, 2014 0:02:04 GMT
I really liked the article. It brings up so many good points that need to be considered by all Dexter breeders. Traits that should be highly regarded and preserved in our breed; Protected, not brushed aside in favor of these latest trends.
As a newer breeder I believe these are the types of articles that are truly useful and need to be encouraged. I find it very sad, that the Board chose to silence what I agree is "simple common sense".
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Post by jamshundred on May 25, 2014 16:14:18 GMT
Here is the bottom line as brief as I can say it. The associations that have charged themselves with LEADING this breed let an animal into the herd books of a country that does NOT allow upgrading that would NOT have qualified for registration had it's grandmother not been in the books by fraud/error. and whose sire would NOT have qualified for registration without the fraudulent/error entry. Big leadership mistake # 1
The association did NOT do it's homework on this issue. Because certain members of leadership WANTED an easy way to be free of horns, ( yet they chose to breed a HORNED breed),
they "looked the other way". I was told there were threats of law suit if the animal was not admitted to the herd book. Big mistake # 2
They lied to their membership. . . . in the beginning. . . . . during. . . . and for TWENTY LONG YEARS! The leadership continued to keep the truth from the membership for several years AFTER the truth was uncovered and acknowledged in the public domain. ( Of course they did - only a couple members of the leadership at the time didn't breed polled). Big mistake #3
Having been alerted WITH detailed records and statistics that 85% of the American herd now descends from this one bull. . . . . they did NOTHING! Instead they solicited a member well known to membership to write a "soft" piece that said very little but appeared to say a lot and the President eased members concerns by insisting the bull is 99.2% pure.
( Another error on the part of leadership because . . . yet again. . . they did NOT do their homework. . . . . nor did they consult anyone who HAS! Big mistake #4
God spare Dexters from leaders who are ignorant or worse. . . greedy.
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Post by Legend Rock Ranch on Jun 27, 2014 0:48:55 GMT
Oh my gosh. There are sooo many untruths in your post I am truly surprised this is coming out of your mouth. One who claims to get the facts, not in this case....
Since I wrote the letter I will say I never went ballistic. Did you have a chance to read it? Or is this all hearsay? I actually like a lot of what SW had to say, just not all of it.
My letter was written to all directors and some office holders so as you can see we already have a problem with someone leaking info somewhere.
There were many people who wrote complaining about her article, not only me. Complaints were also sent in from people who show their animals, not just polled breeders.
The comment “you” made:
"eliciting not only a personal apology that the article ever appeared in the first place, but assurances anything similar would never happen again!"
Couldn’t be farther from the truth. NEVER was this or anything like this ever said by me, I never asked for an apology. The President did call me and quite a few others with an apology which I thought was nice.
He asked me if I would like to post something in the next bulletin. I thanked him but said NO. I did not want the ADCA bulletin to become just another forum for people to argue and fight.
Have you ever asked yourself why we never see this constant bickering in other countries? Your post is insightful and terribly misleading. We have always agreed to disagree, however this time you are way overstepping you bounds with what I consider downright lies.
Barb
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Post by Legend Rock Ranch on Jun 27, 2014 1:06:46 GMT
One other small tidbit. The Dexter Bulletin on the cover states " Doing the associations business"
Personal comments have their place, SW has her own website she could can post whatever she wants there. My feeling are that the bulletin should remain unbiased and stick to the associations business. Personal onions have no place there, otherwise more wars will take place. Is that what you want to see?
Barb
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Post by jamshundred on Jun 27, 2014 1:46:30 GMT
Hello Barb. Welcome.
First of all. . .. no mam there are no untruths. Now and again I make a mistake but I won't lie to you. I don't need to tell lies. . . .the truth is bad en
.Barb, how do you know what you know? Looks like you were the benefit of leaks you think no one else should get. If "we" have a problem with leaking. . . . . . . .Gosh my head hurts. How DO you know about all those letters and complaints from so many people?
Well, I have a problem with anyone and everyone who made a complaint. Good grief! Ms. Walkup. . . IS . . . . a breeder of red polled Dexters and should have been complimented for noticing a trend in which she herself has benefited but which she also recognizes as not good for the breed. She should be commended instead of villified for the thoughtful article.
I didn't say you ASKED for an apology. A complaint solicits " Sorry" which is an apology. And yet again you just confirmed what I said to be the truth. Goodness the night visions I am having are becoming frightfully accurate. Is that good juju or bad juju? Joking aside. . . here is what I'd like to say, . . " How dare he! How dare he apologize and patronize and pacify one breeder( or more as you say) over another. He apologized for a breeder being forthright and thoughtful? How dare he! Cannot you not see how wrong that is?
That offer is one I would approve of. If you disagreed with things in the article a rebuttal opinion is exactly the right way to approach the issue. Then members could filter the opinions and decide for themselves. I quite enjoy reading and learning from editorial pages with differing opinions. I don't agree with the complaining breeders you speak of and I find the President's reaction as you describe it to be offensive. Do you think Ms. Walkup would be impressed?
I think you are naive. You must not have been listening some years ago when the DCS went through an internal fuss just after the ADCA one.
And then again just last year there was another one. Guess you didn't read their discussion board. Several members of council resigned and lit into others while doing so. And I've heard of some tension on the islands as well at times. People who walk in lock-step scare the bejesus out of me.
Your last sentence is offensive. Your own words confirmed what I said for goodness sakes.
Judy
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Post by legendrockranch on Jun 27, 2014 2:51:42 GMT
Judy this isn't a jousting game or who can one up each other. Which it seems you love to do. My reply was my truth as the person who wrote the letter, not hearing it second hand and posting a complete fallacy. Own up to it. Once again you reply is twisting everything I wrote to suite what you want.
I wonder what one of the complaints who happens to be a lawyer would think about your comment below. Time to get real Judy Well, I have a problem with anyone and everyone who made a complaint. Little children running to mommy or the teacher comes to mind. Good grief!
Barb
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Post by jamshundred on Jun 27, 2014 3:09:53 GMT
Barb,
If you want to participate, please sign in. Writing as "guest" causes problems with the software.
Barb, yes it is. And yes I do. No different than a good debate.
Barb, is this a threat born out of desperation or something. Let me see. WWJFD? ( What would Jeff Foxworthy do). Oh no! The other guy. The "get-er-done" guy. He'd push out his belly and flex his arms with elbows extended, look you in the face, pause, and then say, " Bring her on!". Oh wait. You already tried that didn't you? Actually Barb you do much better when you go after me behind my back but it IS much more interesting when you are upfront with it and I have a chance to debate. I mean. . . . really Barb. A threat? Or did you really ask that to get my opinion? My first impulse is to say, " why don't you ask him instead of me"? I look like a bobble doll right now! Or did you mean someone to represent Ms. Walkup who has now been placed in awkward positions twice by ADCA leadership.
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Post by Legend Rock Ranch on Jun 27, 2014 3:28:08 GMT
Judy my ranch name comes up to the left when I post. I don't plan on becoming a regular participant on this forum. The only reason I came on at all was to dispute you post. since I was the one you posted all the untruths about. No threat about the Lawyer, he is a Dexter owner and saw what was written in the bulletin and made his comments about the article be know. Just as many others have. If you don't want to hear my remarks, maybe you should reframe from you offensive comments.
Go to bed now Judy, you need the rest.
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Post by Legend Rock Ranch on Jun 27, 2014 4:10:02 GMT
Judy, I will ask you this again…Did you actually read my e-mail? A simple yes or no is all that is needed, no long dissertation.
Your comment: “I understand at least one red polled breed in the SW” tells me that this was something that was said to you?
Seems to me your contacts are feeding you incorrect information. What’s really sad is that these rumors and innuendos are being passed on by YOU.
I know what I wrote, you are passing on false incorrect information. Like you I will not stand by and watch you discredit me, especially because it IS not the truth.
Barb
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Post by genebo on Jun 27, 2014 16:30:56 GMT
Excuse me! Lest we get distracted. My position is that it was a good article, well written, and I enjoyed reading it. I wish we had more like it.
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Post by jamshundred on Jun 29, 2014 5:07:32 GMT
Barb
i never typed your name. You came here and said you were the person to whom I was referring and that I was telling untruths while also stating there were a number of other people also upset by the article. Were any if you ballistic? How about a legal threat? Does that come from a person upset enough to be described loosely as ballistic?
Were you the only one whose reaction fit my description so that you knew it had to be you to whom I referred? See how confusing your confession/ denial is?
Why were you upset by that article? Do I understand it was because you think it was not appropriate for ADCA to publish a piece that might stir controversy?
We'll I got a pair of moccasins for you! Do you have any idea how ballistic I went when the President offered his opinion in a previous issue of the same publication about polled and gave an unsupportable percentage of purity to mollify polled breeders without any thought to how that would be perceived by horned breeders? And only pages away was an ADCA solicited article from someone many breeders believe to be knowledgeable which intentionally left out everything that was pertinent to the issue but would likely not have been received well by you and the others who objected to the Walkup contribution had it not been a whitewash. ADCA solicited that article and it was directed to current polled breeders and potential buyers. It portrayed no concern for horned breeders or the beating they have taken because of lies supported by the association and easily uncovered with any effort at all.
It it is time to walk a mile in the other moccasins.
Judy
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Post by Legend Rock Ranch on Jun 29, 2014 23:14:41 GMT
One other small tidbit. The Dexter Bulletin on the cover states " Doing the associations business"
Personal comments have their place, SW has her own website she could can post whatever she wants there. My feeling are that the bulletin should remain unbiased and stick to the associations business. Personal onions have no place there, otherwise more wars will take place. Is that what you want to see?
Barb I will state...... I could care less about what you think or what SW thinks. The ADCA bulletin is NOT a place for personal opinions. That was the MAIN reason for my comments nothing else. Now go back and reread your intitial post to me. I truly can't believe you are that vial as to post something like that especially because it was NOT THE TRUTH. So what do you do, you continue to attack. You don't wear it well and people are being to wonder. It would serve you better not to attack everything and everyone that disagrees with you.
Barb
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Post by jamshundred on Jun 30, 2014 20:09:07 GMT
How come I have this feeling I have seen lots of opinions published in the Bulletin over the years? Why come when it comes to a good sound principle regarding breeding practices it is then time to close down the printing press because it related to polled?
I am going to say this yet again so any polled breeder reading this gets it.
I am a horned breeder of early bloodlines and I want to see these bloodlines preserved for genetic reasons and resources. They are the foundation of our breed.
Polled cattle are upgraded. The Dexter breed is and was established as a horned breed. Well, those breeds carry their own traits, some of them vastly different from the early Dexter traits. Just looking at the changes in the heads and faces and phenotype is all the evidence one needs that Dexter genes are being removed. There are more and more reports of difficult calvings or dead calves at birth and huge birthweight calves. There are more and more reports of vet visits to farms for illness, and for mastitis and milk fever. None of these problems were known to be issues in the Dexter breed in the past. Dexters were renowned for their immune system. Not only is it impossible to negate the other traits that were crossed into our breed. . . . . .currently. .. . . . and READ THIS CAREFULLY AND THINK ! ! ! 85% of EVERY Dexter being born in America ( it is actually higher) has ONE bull in the pedigree, sometimes twice and sometimes three times, all in just a few short generations. Barbara! For goodness sake I understand why you fight for YOUR herd. . . .but this is a breed that is being changed dramatically, and now it is actually being LINEBRED to one bull.
This is what really bugs me further. I have not once asked that a polled animal be removed from this breed or slaughtered. I have not once asked a breeder to stop breeding polled. All I've ever done is ask that the truth be told about the outcrossing, that the registry identify the polled cattle ( like they used to) with the P designation, and that there be TWO categories WITHIN the registry . . .one for horned. . . one for polled. . . so that the bloodlines are NOT crossed through ignorance. I have strived to gather correct information and done so. I have strived to preserve the 15% of the breed that is left without modern recorded upgrading. For this, you have dogged me for years, and you befriend and patronize the person who lied, knowingly, over and over, who promised to eradicate any purity left in America in front of an ADCA board, who bought all remaining identifiable animals from one of the oldest existing herds and exported to a country that upgrades and immediately they were bred to Saltaire Platinum. Couldn't that person have kept just one here or sold one to an American breeder? You champion that philosophy and actions and you complain about a fellow Dexter breeder offering a very germaine opinion and create a negative towards her! What is wrong with this picture?
One more thing. Esmeralda was registered by fraud or error. Had the truth been known or told at best she would have been an A appendix entry. Her son, Migh Polkark did not qualify for registration had Esmeralda not been eregistered in error. His son Saltaire Platinum would never have been registered. Breeders of horned cattle in American have watched their breed characteristics eliminated by a bull that should never have been registered. Do you know how many Dexters have died because of a bull that was brought here on a lie? Do you know how many horned breeders have been forced from the breed because a polled fad took over? Do you have any empathy whatsoever for the breeders or breed that have been irreparably harmed by lies?
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Post by wvdexters on Jun 30, 2014 22:01:27 GMT
This is just an excerpt from an article in the Summer 2013 Dexter Bulletin.
Message from the President:
...All of this growth and interest in Dexter cattle enhances the need for more education. I would like to encourage EACH of you to write an article for the Bulletin. It need not be lengthy, just informative. If you found a new product you really like, tell us about it, If you tried something and it worked, let us know. Even if something you tried did not work, we can all benefit from your experience.
Our new members/breeders are eager to learn are hungry for information. Our current (old?)members are always looking for new ideas and different ways to do things. We need to share our knowledge and experience to help each other. Dexter breeders are well-known for their willingness to share; I am just asking you write it down and send it in.
Page 6
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Post by genebo on Jul 1, 2014 0:03:18 GMT
I saw that article in the Summer 2013 Dexter Bulletin, too. I thought it was a fresh, new thing to see, and I wanted to chip in. Therefore ai wrote a short article and sent it to the editor of the Bulletin. I never heard back from it, but that could have been for any reason, including that it was a lousy article. We ain't all Hemingways, you know.
When I saw The S. A. Walkup article, I felt like it was great and in the same spirit as the President's request. I wish that everyone raising a squawk about it wouls stop and come to their senses. This is good stuff! We need more, not less.
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