History and Genetic Science of the Dexter Breed (Excellent)

[cascade]

This excellent article by one of the world's premier Dexter experts includes some of the BEST scientific genetic information available on Dexter genetics.  It should be on the front page of every Dexter forum and website.  It's buried deeply on the ADCA website but we should ask to have it made more prominent and easy to find.   Perhaps it should be mailed to every new breeder.  

www.dextercattle.org/adca/adca_article_chondrodysplasia.html

[Deleted]

As a new breeder to Dexters this article was one of the reasons
that we first looked at other breeds. After reviewing several
breeds we came back to Dexters after a lot of review with the
last generation of my family and other people involved in livestock.
I am totally sick and tired of this type of arrogance in the
livestock business!
This would be a totally great article if written with the correct
title and contained all the information it should and were not so
blindly prejuidous !
The name should have been Line breeding the good and the bad.
You do not even realize what it is. It should contain all types
of the issues and advantages of Line breeding.
Our family and friends families lived through the Herford and
Angus issues through the generations and if you have not you can
not even begin to understand the turmoil and hurt that was created.
You seriously need to get involved in another breed they will
diffentlly love you.
PS I am sure and thankful that you will not enjoy my next post!

[wvdexters]

Friends, This thread IMO was created for one purpose and one purpose alone. And that is simply to create knee-jerk reactions from those of us here and to further escalate the friction and hard feelings between the "modern dexter camp" and the "traditional dexter breeders" that many of us here are so proud to be a part of.

Yes, Carol Davidson can be described as a prominent and very influential North American breeder. She has devoted a great part of her life to the breed and has a large group of supporters; of which Kirk is an outspoken member. But this being said, she would never be described as a "friend to the Traditional Dexter" or to its breeders. She has worked diligently throughout her career to "modernize" our breed and is strongly in favor of the use of "upgraded" bulls and doing away with the traditional Chondro pos Dexter. (The picture and the very foundation of our breed.)

Kirk has joined this group not as a friend to us or to our breed. He is here simply to control the content of our posts and to make sure his modern radical agenda is broadcast for all to see on this forum also. Many of us have all but left the other Dexter forum because of his hounding and that of the others like him.

I urge everyone not to take the bait and follow him into this trap.

[genebo]

Are you kidding me?!

You provided a link to an article by Carol Davidson! That is the importer of Saltaire Platinum semen to America. The one who has been chondro-bashing since before Kirk.

Before you buy into one of her articles that the ADCA did, go back and read what she wrote on the dextercattle2 forum back in the early 2000's. Things like polledness in Platinum was a mutation, that he had no ancestry that came from an upgrade, that certain herds had cleansed themselves of the gene that caused bulldog calves in the years before there was a test. A misconstruence of the herd owner's claim that the herd had been cleared of bulldog calves (quite simply done by having a bull without the gene).

It wasn't until much later, after Judy found and revealed the truth about Platinum's ancestry that she admitted that polledness came from his Angus ancestry. In retaliation, she circulated a story about a disgruntled farm hand that snuck a Guernsey bull in to Bullfinch's dam's pen one night, making Bullfinch 1/2 Guernsey. When a DNA test of his semen during the Carlisle Report research proved that the story was impossible, the story changed. Now it was a Jersey bull. That was also impossible, so the story has been through so many variations!

She is the originator on the discussion boards of the formula for measuring the true height of a dwarf Dexter, the one that our boy changes like he changes his socks.

Spend a day reading the oldest posts on dextercattle2, to see how so much of the stuff (that is passed off today as fact) was developed. You'll be amazed at how long they have been influencing new owners with it, in spite of having it proven false. You can go back over 12 years to find the same old tired issues being put out by some of the same old tired people.

After Julie Cavanaugh and her group determined the locus of the chondro gene, and consolidated the various names it was previously called, and developed a test for it, the tone of the posts changed for most people. They quickly realized that they could keep their beloved dwarf Dexters, yet eliminate bulldog calves for just the price of a DNA test.

This is the source you are being asked to believe.

[cascade]

Lots of personal attacks, but no one seems to dispute any of the scientific facts posted in the excellent article up top.
I guess that means that we all agree with the science posted in the article.

PS. Here's my agenda and I've posted it here before:

If you want to protect the Dexter breed, then understand exactly what makes the dexter breed special and unique, and then select for those traits generation after generation:

1. 100% compact-framed animals, not too tall.
2. VERY friendly, safe, and easy-to-manage bulls.
3. VERY friendly and easy-to-manage cows that will let you work with their calves.
4. Cows that give birth easily to robust calves in all sorts of weather, with NO assistance (even as heifers)
5. Cows with good udders that can give a reasonable amount of milk, but not so much that they MUST be milked.
6. Maintain their weight easily on good-enough grass (and minerals) alone.
7. Hardy and have a good degree of naturally resistance to disease and parasites.
8. LONG LIVES... Dexter Cows should live 20 years, Bulls should live to their teens (unless you eat them first)
9. Generally nice cattle conformation (good feet, strong legs, strong backs, etc.)

We all have less than perfect animals on our farms so it's always a work in progress. The famous bulls have provided most all of these above traits (that's why they're famous), but lots of other less-famous bulls have these traits too.

Certainly, there will always be people who love horns vs. polled and that's simply a personal choice. If you want to promote horns, then do so. They're very nice to look at.

[jamshundred]

Karrie,

Actually Kirk posted that to annoy me because I commented on what a dreadful article it is, and how it was designed to sensationalize the dwarf cattle and present them at their very worse which is does.  Find me those photos in American publications.  Find me dwarf cattle in America or in the historical photos that resemble anything like the cattle in that article.  The most celebrated herds in the world, with the exception of modern Woodmagic were dwarf herds.  The photos of the Atlantic herd will take your breath away the Dexters are so gorgeous.   At any rate, I wasn't annoyed. .  I was LOL!  Showed me he has both a sense of humor and a mischievous streak.  Is he being led around by the nose by a stealth operator who always works BEHIND the scenes.  Probably.  But don't fret that either . . . . . . it never lasts long.  People with brains get wise to being manipulated and used.  Some sooner than others but I know of few who have not.

If Kirk were not here. . . . . we would not have such a great opportunity to present the case of our wonder dwarf cattle.   Think of how many breeders  that now exist who have never had the joy of having a dwarf Dexter look into their eyes with trust and loyalty, or watch a tiny little Dexter calf stand beneath it's tiny mother and nurse.   The qualities of the DWARF Dexter have kept them in the hearts and herds of their owners and it IS the DWARF Dexter of which the brochures exclaim!  Therein lies the angst.   Non-dwarf breeders, ( let US drop the carrier- non carrier and call them what they are please!), know this, and old timers knew their non-dwarf cattle could not compete.  They do not have the same loyal/trusting/affectionate personalities, they do not have the ability to process forage as efficiently, and they do not maintain condition as the dwarf cattle do and I am suspecting they do not have the same genetics for the celebrated immune systems.  The dwarf cattle survived and became the darlings of the rich cattle men both because they were cute. . . . but also they had positive viable traits.    You can take a non-dwarf and a dwarf Dexter and raise them in a pasture without handling them and then in a few years work to tame them.   The are two different creatures.  That little dwarf has a place in their hearts similar to a dog which wants to be your buddy once they decide you are trustworthy.

Kirk cannot . . . . . by any means. . . . . . . change the reality of the dwarf cattle as no further damage can be done.   Non-dwarf breeders did the job after the test for chondro was discovered and the negative campaign against dwarfism saw hundreds of wonderful foundation Dexters slaughtered.  Article like the one posted here which does NOT represent the dwarf cattle accurately, and the loss of calves to PHA ( Woodmagic brought it to America and Woodmagic dun was the previous big fad to polled so it spread far and wide) which were blamed on dwarfism did tremendous damage to our dwarf cattle, and breeders were also intimidated and shamed.  Oh yes, non dwarf breeders had it really good now for a dozen years with all the scare tactics they could muster.   

However, a dozen years have passed.   Many breeders who moved from dwarf to non-dwarf had experience and they KNEW the difference and lamented the differences.  Thanks to those of us with experience who have never crumpled beneath the weight of the anti-dwarf campaign, the word IS getting out.  Give it some time.  More and more breeders are coming back to the foundation of the Dexter breed, the dwarf!  and more and more folks are seeing them in show rings and on farms and falling for those endearing personalities.

Kirk gives us the opportunity to say it over and over and over and over and to create doubt in the minds of those who have been given negative opinions of the dwarf cattle and longing in the hearts of those who want to have the kind of Dexter WE breed and praise.   

Remember this my friends. . .  .  Kirk can breed miniature cattle all day long.  But that is all he can breed.   Dexter cattle are DWARF cattle and they are NOT miniaturized.  They are the smallest breed of European cattle because of their dwarfism. . . . not in spite of it. 

Judy

[lonecowhand]

Thanks, Judy, You've put a good face on a frustrating situation. Seeing all these attacks as an opportunity to spread the truth about Dexters is cathartic at the least. Thanks for the long perspective.

[wvdexters]

Wonderful post Judy!! I too am a PROUD breeder of DWARF CATTLE.

[lakeportfarms]

Very nice post Judy! I feel sorry for the Dexter owners who have succumbed to the rhetoric and avoid the dwarf Dexters; they're missing out.

[cascade]

The chondro-gene is a single broken mutated gene that has been introduced to all sorts of cattle to artificially dwarf them.
The chondro-gene does NOTHING to reduce the true genetic size of dexters, it just (badly) hides the true genetic size.
You could choose to eliminate the chondro gene from Dexters without taking anything else away from dexters (although, eliminating chondro would reduce early arthritis and reduce early deaths).

But I can support people using the gene if they use it HONESTLY by doing four things

1. Educate folks on the SCIENCE of the gene using SCIENTIFIC language... Yes, it's a lethal gene, but it can be managed
2. Educate folks on the fact that dwarfs have genetics that are MUCH larger than themselves and that dwarfs can't breed true
3. Educate folks on the fact that chondro dwarfs often live shorter lives with early arthritis
4. Educate folks on the fact that there is a true-breeding, true-short alternative to lethal-gene-dwarfs. The true-short alternative does NOT have lethal genes, the true short alternative lives LONG healthy lives.

Too many breeders using this lethal defect gene, just try to hide it. If they're proud of it, then why don't they make an attempt to rewrite this article WITHOUT removing the scientific facts and WITHOUT removing correct scientific language and without removing pictures of bulldog calves.

www.dextercattle.org/adca/adca_article_chondrodysplasia.html

I look forward to seeing your attempt at a rewrite of it WITHOUT hiding the facts

Until someone has a better version, this version works very well.