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Post by lakeportfarms on Jan 15, 2015 18:03:53 GMT
Bill, I'm not sure if you've run across this or not on Olga's site or if you're a member of one of the Dexter Facebook sites, but I thought I'd post it here for you to see if you haven't. Judy, feel free to move it to the thread of your choice, and maybe make it a sticky so anybody that comes here will see it at the top.
I try not to think about this video, I have a tendency to play it over and over again so I don't accomplish anything. On the bright side it's saved me a fortune by allowing me to cancel my cable television...lol and soon I hope to be close to being able to gaze out on our pastures and see something similar (except some red and dun shorties mixed in).
Enjoy!
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Post by lonecowhand on Jan 15, 2015 18:10:07 GMT
Oh Man, you're killin' me! All those expressive faces! I wonder how I can keep this. Thanks a Bunch! Or as I recently heard: "Mucho Mahalos,Man!" Check out all those different types of horns, I can see what Gene means about recognizing them each, they are so individual! and you gotta love the park like setting, How pastoral! No wonder the people are big smiles!  |
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Post by jamshundred on Jan 15, 2015 20:55:56 GMT
Hans,
Thanks for posting it and yes we can pin it.
The Grinstead herd was the premier Dexter herd in England - a celebrated herd of champions.
If only today's modern breeders would look at this film and see EXACTLY what a Dexter phenotype was in the past. . . . and should be today. . .
Dexters were a unique and special breed of dwarf cattle. . . . strikingly different from all other breeds in the fields and easy to pick out in a crowd.
These phenotypes still exist in America and they HAVE to be preserved! Hopefully this will encourage more folks to want to locate and breed the foundation phenotype of the breed, including the horns! Those horns are part of the package and the identity.
A breeder from overseas mentioned the bull and a possible identity and has raised my curiosity. I am trying to find out if it might have been Sparr Nero. . . . . one of the most popular bulls in England of all time I think.
I think there are two others Hans, you can put those up as well if you like.
Judy
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2015 21:20:41 GMT
The only thing I dont like is they are a little rough on that poor boys nose.
Judy, notice the horns on the first cow calf they show. The right is a little lower than the left.
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Post by Blessings Farms on Jan 15, 2015 21:25:23 GMT
Thanks Hans that is impressive! What a overall uniform herd
and great horns.
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Post by wvdexters on Jan 15, 2015 21:52:08 GMT
I just love this ...
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Post by Donlin Stud on Jan 15, 2015 22:45:18 GMT
That video answers my question about what are the traits of a Dexter.
Love the shortness in statue and look at those beautiful deep bodies as well as the other aspects raised by others.
Absolutely fantastic vid and yes, a little rough on the boy and mum was not so happy !
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Post by Donlin Stud on Jan 15, 2015 22:46:36 GMT
I think there are two others Hans, you can put those up as well if you like. Oh yes please  |
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Post by genebo on Jan 16, 2015 1:19:01 GMT
Don't you love the variety of horns? The variety among the horns of this herd is less than I've seen in some US herds, but still, you can practically identify each animal by its horns. Lovely!
Bambi had horns that match until she injured the right one. Then it turned down a little, making her my "angel with the crooked halo".
Her daughter, Bambina, had small, slow growing horns that were well matched at 15 months old:
Today, Bambina's right horn points higher than her left one. Injury? I don't know. But she is like bookends with her mama. Opposite direction curls.
However they loop and curl, Dexter horns are beautiful. The Grinstead collection is wonderful.
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Post by cascade on Jan 16, 2015 2:36:56 GMT
That video is a complete FRAUD. Promoters of the Chondrodysplasia Lethal Gene know it's a complete fraud. The Video is only showing 50% of the herd. The other 50% of the herd is hidden out back, some in graves, some are giants compared to the parents. Lethal gene Chondrodysplastic dwarfs cannot breed true. They throw a mishmash of results including giant calves and dead monster calves. You can NEVER have a herd of lethal gene dwarfs unless you throw away 50% of the calves at birth. If you let that Fake "Herd" of lethal-gene chondrodysplastic cattle breed, you'd get: 25% Horribly Deformed Dead Homozygous Dwarfs with two lethal genes 25% Giants compared to the parents 50% Chondrodysplastic Dwarfs carrying lethal genes Here's what 25% of that herd would look like (all born PAINFULLY dead, and risking the mother's life too).    |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 2:38:42 GMT
Gene,
The reason I mention the horns. is that every one of our full colllorados has a right horn that is lower than the left. It is not a big difference but if you look for it it is noticeable.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 2:43:18 GMT
your a real class act kirk.
I think the admin needs to remove his post it has nothing to do with this thread.
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Post by lakeportfarms on Jan 16, 2015 3:36:56 GMT
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Post by lakeportfarms on Jan 16, 2015 12:58:02 GMT
I agree Mike that the post of Kirk's has nothing to do with the video, but is an entirely separate topic. He did it because Judy said she would make it a sticky at the top and Kirk thought it would live in perpetuity, no doubt. Judy, please move Kirk's post to a new thread.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 15:15:13 GMT
If this is going to be made a sticky and I think it should. It should be a new thread with just the videos. No ones comments unless maybe just a history of Grinstead. It should be a locked thread and put in the historical section.
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Post by lonecowhand on Jan 16, 2015 17:05:32 GMT
(sigh) I guess I have to agree with dexterfarm, that if, by policy, we can't have these obscene posts removed selectively, we should still at least enjoy the videos.
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Post by lonecowhand on Jan 16, 2015 17:30:32 GMT
But you know, I've been thinking, if we remove all the comments and keep only the video, he has killed another pleasant conversation celebrating Dexterness and then he wins.
So I'm leaning more to lakeportfarms viewpoint.
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Post by cascade on Jan 16, 2015 20:12:30 GMT
Thanks Hans that is impressive! What a overall uniform herd The Grinstead video shows a "Uniform" group of animals because the 25% giants and 25% dead calves are removed from the collection and hidden out back behind the barn. You're only seeing half of the herd. If you put all the animals shown in the video out in a pasture and let them breed, you would have the OPPOSITE of uniformity 25% of the calves would be born dead and horribly disfigured (some risking the lives of the mothers too) 25% of the calves would be giants compared to the moms (5-9 inches taller than the parents) 50% of the calves would be lethal gene carriers that can't breed true The very good news about Dexters is that since 2002, you can test for the lethal Chondrodysplasia dwarfing gene and you can eliminate it over time. Chondro = Cartilage Dysplasia = defective, dysfunction The good news is that you can breed for true-short dexters that throw 100% uniform true-short calves. You can have a REAL uniform short dexter herd with no lethal genes and no dead deformed "bull-dog" calves. This true-short non-chondro dun dexter can be bred on short bulls just like herself and all the calves will be very similar to the parents (she is physically de-horned, so just imagine if she still had her beautiful horns on if you prefer horns):  If you like true uniformity, then TRUE-SHORT, non-chondro is the ONLY way to achieve it. |
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Post by lonecowhand on Jan 16, 2015 23:19:20 GMT
Interruptions aside,
Hans, thanks for the London Filmstrips as well. Look at how the different competing Dexters all shared the same body shape and size, so obviously different from the other breeds competing! Back then, there was no doubt what the ideal Dexter looked like, and I'm sure glad some of you still do.
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Post by jamshundred on Jan 17, 2015 3:39:43 GMT
Kirk, With relation to your comments on the Grinstead herd. Have you looked at the photo in the historical section of the Woodmagic herd? The simple truth is . . . to bring down the size of those long legs. . .the herd had to be bred so as to be miniaturized. Right? And here is a another photo of a Dexter calf aborted . . . . not by PHA. . . . and not by chondro . . . . . . . . ANY dead calf is gut wrenching. I could post this photo and others I have in giant size repeatedly to cause intakes of breath and shock as well. I have read of so many Dexter calf deaths just the past few months. One owner lost 4 calves out of six. . . dead at birth. What's going on out there? We know how to avoid the bulldog calf. . . . . we don't even know what is causing these other deaths. . . but is certainly not typically Dexter. This is one of the fears of removing the Dexter genetics from the breed. It begins to change and evolve and the problems other breeds struggle to overcome and solve become ours. It took 20 years for PHA to become a reality, part of the delay due to it being hidden by members of leadership who had it in the herds, but still. . . . . . we have a bull now in over 85% of the pedigrees in the Dexter breed. . . . . whose heritage is one BIG question mark. 4 outcrossings and we don't even know what breed it was. And now. . . ... you are faced with ADCA sanctioning a paper purporting there are two more, and in SOME polled lines all three, of which Guernsey and Red polled and whatever recessives and breed issues they carry come along for the ride. That makes SEVEN outcrossings in a 10 line pedigree and ADCA is willing to put their seal of approval on a paper stating it as fact. You go guys!  Judy |
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Post by cascade on Jan 17, 2015 21:59:30 GMT
All dexters have hundreds of outcrossings on their distant pedigrees. ALL dexters carry genetics from tons of other breeds.
PHA hid in dexters for so long, partly because of chondro. Many folks who had a pha baby, likely thought it was a chondro-baby and just swept it under the rug because chondro-babies were acceptable.
Mother cows can abort calves for something as simple as a lack of minerals like phosphorus. First question to ask when seeing an aborted calf is DO THE COWS HAVE ACCESS TO COMPLETE MINERALS including major minerals of phosphorus and magnesium.. and do the minerals have appropriate amounts of iodine, selenium, and copper for your region.
The aborted calf in the picture above, is likely due to mineral deficiency. If genetics problems are suspected, then the sire bull should be bred on many of his own daughters to try to determine if a problem gene exists.
Famous excellent bulls like Saltaire Platinum and Lucifer of Knotting have been proven to be free of any lethal genes via MUCH inbreeding
Traditional/legacy Dexters were never scrubbed free of problem genes so they are just as likely to carry problems as any other breed of cow.
ALL AI bulls should be marked as experimental until they are bred on many of their own daughters, to attempt to find any problem genes. A bull carrying a bad recessive gene bred on 16 of his own daughters would expect to have 4 problem grandchildren. If there are NO problems, there is a very good chance that the bull doesn't carry any problem genes.
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Post by genebo on Jan 18, 2015 0:10:47 GMT
Judy,
Thank you for pointing out the fearsome new calf deaths that have been found. I hope that this time there are knowledgeable and capable people working to get to the root cause.
I know that PHA calves were reported for many years before the root cause was discovered.
What was dreadful was that we had nobody in the US working to solve the mystery of the calf deaths. Some were passed off as being bulldog calves, which they obviously weren't. Others had no action taken to solve the riddle. We had to wait for Australia to diagnose the cause and tell us that a single Canadian bull was responsible for all the PHA calves in the US. We don't want that to happen again.
Everybody has heard of and knows about PHA in Dexters. You can go to any cattle board and read about our trials with it. It's not good for the reputation of Dexter cattle. Let's do whatever it takes to pin down the cause of these new calf deaths and maybe stop it before it spreads too far into the US herd, as PHA did.
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Post by otf on Jan 18, 2015 0:48:42 GMT
When you lose an animal and don't know why, then you need to have a necropsy done. Sometimes the vet can come to your farm and do it on-site, taking samples to send to a lab; other times, you need to send the fetus and afterbirth to a qualified lab to get results. You can't let the dead animal sit out in the heat or freeze in the cold. It's best done ASAP. But without some scientific input, you are ****ing in the wind. Yes, you have to pay for it, but you usually get answers that can help you prevent problems with the rest of your herd.
Gale
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Post by genebo on Jan 18, 2015 18:05:56 GMT
In Virginia, you can have a necropsy done at the VDACS lab in Lynchburg. The cost is subsidized by the state for livestock animals. I had a goat (livestock) done for $65, while a rabbit (non-livestock) cost $125.
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Post by hollyrockranch on Jan 22, 2015 18:13:16 GMT
Great video. Love them Dexter's such pretty faces and chubby cute bodies.
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Post by genebo on Jan 22, 2015 19:40:45 GMT
That is exactly what drew me to Dexters: pretty faces and chubby cute bodies.
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