Kirk

[Deleted]

In light of kirks most recent post in the Grinstead video thread and his past history on here as well. Since this is a democracy I say we vote to remove him from this board.

[lakeportfarms]

Ha! I think this should be made a sticky too!

[lakeportfarms]

I'd just like to say, that some of these chat sites that have advertising make a lot of money for their creators. Just think, more controversy, more hits on the site, and more money for the creator (Judy)to spend on things she is passionate about like Dexters!

So I bet Judy was the lone no vote so far to keep Kirk around.

(Just trying a little reverse psychology on Kirk here)

[lonecowhand]

Judy may have been the vote, because she is a class act who believes in the right of people to express themselves and their opinions, and is trying real hard to retain a policy of no censorship.

I know  there are some individuals who cannot self-moderate.

How many times can I cast a vote, Hans? I'm originally from Chicago, you know!

[lakeportfarms]

I agree about Judy. And Bill, if the vote gets close to allowing Kirk to remain, vote as many times as you need to, just as they do in Chicago!

Oh, and Mike, you certainly know how to pose poll questions to achieve the desired result...lol

[lonecowhand]

And Thank You, Mike! I agree with Hans about your polling technique!

[cascade]

Many breeders purposefully selecting for Chondrodysplasia Lethal Genes have been trying to hide the facts for decades.

This is what purebred chondro dwarfs really look like (born dead, thank goodness)




This is what purebred true-shorts (non-chondro look like):




No wonder so many chondrodysplasia-lethal-gene-breeders want to censor these facts

www.dextercattle.org/adca/adca_article_chondrodysplasia.html
 

[genebo]

Let's hurry and get rid of him before he posts a link to everything Carol Davidson ever wrote. Evidently he's her parrot.

Judy, if you really want to avoid censorship and yet still give us some respite from his awful behavior, then simply refuse to accept photos posted of cattle you don't own unless you show permission to do so. The rest of us won't be hindered by that at all. I don't think many other people are guilty of doing that, anyway.

That still doesn't stop him from making up statements as he goes along, but since he never even identifies who he took the photos from, his made up figures won't mean anything.

One day he's bragging about how long legged his heifers are, the next he's trying to pass them off as being the fabled "proportional dwarf" of Dexter legend. Lots of people have claimed to have a proportional short legged Dexter in their herds, but he's the only one to claim that he has emulated the Lowline Angus program and bred his bunch of cattle down to a respectable size. It tokk 40 years of work by dedicated professionals to complete the Lowl;ine Angus project. He did it just since last August. The real miracle is that the ones he owns today are the same ones he owned last August.

Somebody has been busy shortening cattle legs.

Face it folks. We have them. He doesn't. He is so torn up over his choice of animals to keep and is so jealous of our Traditional Dexters.

That is no reason to let him continue acting like a butthead who has quit taking his medication. If alcohol is involved, his caretakers should take it away from him before letting him use the computer. He needs to be stopped before he lands in rehab. I'll bet he spits when he talks about Traditional Dexters.

I just happen to be one of the chondrodysplasia-lethal-gene-breeders that he tries so hard to slander. I'm proud of my Traditional dwarf Dexters, and every ancestor that contributed to their perfect phenotype. I'm actually glad that he has never had the privilege of owning the like, for I would not want him on my side. He belongs with the others like him. They deserve him. We don't.

If anybody knows who the owners are of the cattle he posts photos of, please notify the original owners. I did that once. The lady told me she knew about it. She had asked him not to do it, but he did it anyway. When he did it with one of my Dexters, I reported him to the ADCA Ethics Committee. He told them he wouldn't do it any more, and that was it. A man is only as good as his word. His word is worth nothing.

Boo! Hiss! Go away!

[jamshundred]

Well, the one thing I would like to ask everyone is this. . .. . . .STOP posting duplicate photos. If you feel it necessary to post a photo in a new reply, then delete the old ones. I'm asking pretty please.

Today we had a new member join from Holland. I hope everyone is making a good impression. First impressions are important. The cattle and herd names of many of you are being seen world wide. . . . . and as the world registry grows. . . . you are representing your cows to the world. ! !

Do them proud!

Judy

[lonecowhand]

We cannot make a good impression on ANYONE while every thread , every topic of discussion is bombed by the same gross photos and cynical off-topic diatribes coming from cascade. It has caused at least a few very pleasant knowledgeable persons to leave this forum to avoid screwing up their day. Maybe they'll return , I doubt it.

Judy, your request regarding duplicate photos has been completely ignored, your hopes of a good first impression are being compromised daily, as you are aware. What can we do?

I am all for freedom of speech and don't really like censorship. But there comes a point when freedom to do what you like , in the wrong hands, without consideration for others, is vandalism, like "tagging" or graffiti. When your freedom interferes with my freedom, is where your freedom should end.

 Administrator, Please remove him and his posts permanently.

[Deleted]

enough is enough he must go.

[lhaggard]

I agree, it's time for him to go.

[otf]

This is a very sad and negative thread for a board such as this.  In fact, it's downright embarrassing.  It pretty much convinces me that new people coming here to get information about Dexters should run very, VERY fast in another direction.

Gale

[nicosteintjesholland]

Jan 17, 2015 5:02:18 GMT jamshundred said:

Well, the one thing I would like to ask everyone is this. . .. . . .STOP posting duplicate photos. If you feel it necessary to post a photo in a new reply, then delete the old ones. I'm asking pretty please.

Today we had a new member join from Holland. I hope everyone is making a good impression. First impressions are important. The cattle and herd names of many of you are being seen world wide. . . . . and as the world registry grows. . . . you are representing your cows to the world. ! !

Do them proud!

Judy

Hello Judy,

Don't worry about me. After a few reading I found out that not everyone can think and write at the same time. Nothing new, its as old as chatrooms are on the internet (even in Holland).

For me the limit is when he attacks people in person. I can't judge if that's the case. Language is a matter of translation AND interpretation. last part is difficult for me.

greets Nico

[cascade]

Read ALL my posts and you'll see that they are all quite reasonable and free from making any personal attacks.   In fact, I requested that the board administrator DELETE ALL OF EVERYONE'S POSTS CONTAINING PERSONAL ATTACKS and the idea was shot down.

Here are ALL my posts, notice I've made NO PERSONAL ATTACKS..  Just plain good information:

dextercattleworld.proboards.com/user/28/recent



PS.  I don't post ANY photos directly on this board AT all.  I don't use ANY of Judy's limited photo space.   I just post LINKS to photos that are stored elsewhere.  Those who post ANY photos at all directly on this site, are using up Judy's space and will eventually cause Judy to have to PAY for more space.   If you need help, I can show you how to do it the correct way (As I ALWAYS DO) so you can avoid using Judy's space. 

[nicosteintjesholland]

Feb 14, 2015 23:53:18 GMT cascade said:

Read ALL my posts and you'll see that they are all quite reasonable and free from making any personal attacks.   In fact, I requested that the board administrator DELETE ALL OF EVERYONE'S POSTS CONTAINING PERSONAL ATTACKS and the idea was shot down.

Here are ALL my posts, notice I've made NO PERSONAL ATTACKS..  Just plain good information:

dextercattleworld.proboards.com/user/28/recent

Hello Cascade/Kirk,

I've read many of your posts, the last weeks I followed this board and have posted many posts.
It looks like a battle between dwarf-lovers and non-short non-tall (you call them true shorts)-lovers.
The majority is in the first camp and act like russians:
First they ask you not to talk about true shorts,
then they tell you to shutt your mouth,
they complain you are bad (for the breed) and are searching for little mistakes to burn you down.
And now they are trying to ban you! I think to Siberia.

The only thing that disturbs me is all those pictures over and over again. And you trying to much to burn the dwarf down. That must IMO not be the goal. I think its important to let people (who are new in Dexter breeding) know there are 2 currents in Dexter breeding: dwarf X non-dwarf and true short x true short.

Others are ignoring the possibility to breed without the bulldoggene. I think that is bad for the breed!
Breed standard DCS says: Type: Both types of Dexter, i.e. short legged and non-short legged, are of equal merit.

Wish you lots of luck on this board. Don't think there is somebody who will ever admit. That's not bad, if they want to stick with their dwarfs, let them. Focus on telling people who are new in Dexters what the 2 options are.

Lots of luck in breeding!

Nico

[cascade]

Feb 28, 2015 11:32:09 GMT nicosteintjesholland said:

Feb 14, 2015 23:53:18 GMT cascade said:

Read ALL my posts and you'll see that they are all quite reasonable and free from making any personal attacks.   In fact, I requested that the board administrator DELETE ALL OF EVERYONE'S POSTS CONTAINING PERSONAL ATTACKS and the idea was shot down.

Here are ALL my posts, notice I've made NO PERSONAL ATTACKS..  Just plain good information:

dextercattleworld.proboards.com/user/28/recent

Hello Cascade/Kirk,

I've read many of your posts, the last weeks I followed this board and have posted many posts.
It looks like a battle between dwarf-lovers and non-short non-tall (you call them true shorts)-lovers.
The majority is in the first camp and act like russians:
First they ask you not to talk about true shorts,
then they tell you to shutt your mouth,
they complain you are bad (for the breed) and are searching for little mistakes to burn you down.
And now they are trying to ban you! I think to Siberia.

The only thing that disturbs me is all those pictures over and over again. And you trying to much to burn the dwarf down. That must IMO not be the goal. I think its important to let people (who are new in Dexter breeding) know there are 2 currents in Dexter breeding: dwarf X non-dwarf and true short x true short.

Others are ignoring the possibility to breed without the bulldoggene. I think that is bad for the breed!
Breed standard DCS says: Type: Both types of Dexter, i.e. short legged and non-short legged, are of equal merit.

Wish you lots of luck on this board. Don't think there is somebody who will ever admit. That's not bad, if they want to stick with their dwarfs, let them. Focus on telling people who are new in Dexters what the 2 options are.

Lots of luck in breeding!

Nico

The  breed standard says there are short legged dexters and there are long legged dexters but says nothing about chondro vs. non-chondro  It's like they're trying to hide something.

The words "Short" and "Long" and "Legs" already have definitions that everyone understands

Short = Lesser in length
Long =  Greater in length
Legs = Those things that animals stand on.

There have always been (at least) 3 choices in Dexters:  

Dexters with long legs that don't have the chondro gene
Dexters with short legs caused by the chondro gene
Dexters with short legs that are naturally short, without the Chondro gene.

There's even a 4th choice of Chondro dexters with fairly long legs  

The photo's I'm posting are an attempt to educate folks about the 3rd choice... YOU can have short legged dexters WITHOUT a lethal gene. 

Short legs should simply mean SHORT LEGS and not be some purposefully deceitful secret code word for a dreaded lethal gene.  Why do we need a confusing secret code word in 2015 when we know exactly how it works and have a real name for it?  Chondrodsyplastic Dwarf Dexters can be abbreviated as Chondro-Dexters... it's accurate and NOT misleading.

The  DCS and other breed descriptions seem to be trying to purposefully misinform people.

They should update their breed descriptions to accurately say:

"Dexters come in a variety of body styles and leg lengths.  A lethal-dwarfing gene (Chondrodysplasia) which interferes with normal bone growth, can lead to shorter dexters,  but also, many breeders breed for naturally shorter legged normal dexters without the lethal gene.   Testing is the only way to know for sure whether an animal has the lethal Chondrodysplasia gene or not...  the lethality of the gene can be avoided by never breeding two animals that both have the lethal gene"




 

[jamshundred]

NO!  The breed was formed in the late 1800's and THAT is what the Dexter breed is.  If someone wants a DIFFERENT animal than the ones formed into a breed in the late 1800's. .  .they are welcome to them. .   .but DO NOT call them Dexters!

Listen.  How can it be so difficult to recognize that changing the breed is going to cause it's demise?  There is already stiff competition out there for breeders of small cattle.   Besides some differences incoat color. . . what ARE the differences breeders can use to make their choices?  The more you change this UNIQIE and SPECIAL little breed of dwarf cattle .. . .the more you place them at risk.  I am sorry.  .. . sorry to say this again. . .. sorry for the breeders who have to hear it. .  . .  .but the Dexters in your pastures do NOT look like the Dexters of origin.   They are becoming homogenized.  If you breed out the characteristics that made them unique and special. . . .who in the dickens is going to want them?    The fat of the dwarf finishes the animals earlier and gives the meat marbling and flavor.
The unique milking capabilities of the early dwarf cattle .. . . . .along with their ability to produce that milk and meat from minimal forage kept them popular as house cows.   The cows today are not even small cows anymore.  Not large maybe. . .but not small.   Not like Otto Jensen's dairy cows.

We have already had cows that looked like Dexters, cows that were the same color as Dexters. . . cows that supposedly produced similarly to Dexters, were healthy like Dexters, calved easily like Dexters, but the main difference.. . . . . . . . they were organized as LONG LEG cattle.  Primarily the only difference in the two breeds was SIZE.   That breed was Kerry cattle.  They are EXTINCT ! ! !   Hardly anybody wants them.   That is where the leadership and the breeders of today are taking the Dexter breed.   First back to Kerry type and then to Extinction.   Only the current FAD for Dexters is keeping up the numbers.  For goodness sakes. . . . . . . these type of fads . . . DO NOT LAST ! !     The people buying cute. . . . . don't give a hoot.   They will be off to the next cutest little thing down the block in the bat of the eye.  

If you are part of the problem. . . .please give it some thought.    It will actually cost you LESS to raise a Dexter that looks like a Dexter  because most preservation breeders do not sell at the fad prices.

YOU can make a choice to go out and locate the type of Dexters you see in the historical photos, pray that the important traits that gave the breed value are lurking there within the DNA, ( likely are if the outcrossing has been avoided), and you can help us preserve this absolutely unique little breed of RARE HERITAGE cattle.   The true, original Dexter IS. .  without doubt RARE now.   The breeders who have had both . . .. if hosest. . . . should tell you there IS a difference.  I've heard it from several, others have reported the same.   THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.

Judy