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Post by jamshundred on May 4, 2015 13:05:06 GMT
right again! I said there would be a move of breeders to this breed. Today two Dexter breeders published photos of their very attractive WD Bulls. They will likely do quite well as that market is just in the developing stage
I still shake my head over the denial of polled owners who do not understand how badly they were duped into breeding what dog owners affectionately refer to as mongrel mutts. Saltire Platinum was a GRADE bull. FOUR upgrades in a 10 line pedigree and ADCA was wrongly trying to add a couple more. And they diss actual purebred cattle as NOT the equivalent. The deceit is coming home to roost with the chickens. If you are going to rsise upgrades might as well get some of these cute white ones with black ears and noses!
Judy
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Post by jamshundred on May 4, 2015 14:59:33 GMT
Dennis Salyers
This will be the sire of all 2016 calves
( See photo below)
Like · Comment · Stop Notifications · Share · May 2
Elias Kyrt Watson, Carole Nirosky, Luella Malone and 37 others like this.
Dennis Salyers That is to say my calves
Like · Reply · May 2 at 10:33pm
Patti Adams He is gorgeous! Congratulations Dennis!
Like · Reply · 1 · May 2 at 10:35pm
Dennis Salyers Thank you Patti Adams
Like · Reply · 1 · May 2 at 10:35pm
Dennis Salyers I gave him a bath today and tried to halter him but he was having none of that. He seems to be a gentle soul
Like · Reply · 1 · May 2 at 10:37pm
Linda Backer british white park?
Like · Reply · May 2 at 10:55pm
Dennis Salyers nope he is a white dexter
Like · Reply · May 2 at 10:56pm
Linda Backer HUH? since when do dexters come in white?
Like · Reply · May 2 at 10:57pm
Dennis Salyers he is not adca registered
Like · Reply · May 2 at 10:59pm
Linda Backer oh, okay
Like · Reply · May 2 at 10:59pm
Linda Backer so he must be white park crossed on a dexter then?
Like · Reply · 1 · May 2 at 11:00pm
Linda Backer he's gorgeous, love the white park markings, in any case
Like · Reply · 1 · May 2 at 11:00pm
Dennis Salyers Registered white dexter
Like · Reply · May 2 at 11:03pm
Jillian Salyers whoa daddio. Thats impressive.
Like · Reply · 1 · May 2 at 11:12pm
P.j. Breedlove I wish they had another name for them, White Dexter implys that they are Dexters, not a breed developed after at least 10 years of selective breeding. I love the breed. Dexter's aren't white...
Like · Reply · 6 · May 2 at 11:36pm
Lisa Sabo Handsome fella
Like · Reply · 1 · Yesterday at 6:32am
Midhill Farm Nice bull Dennis. Will concentrate more on the white dexters now?
Like · Reply · 1 · Yesterday at 6:38am
Nikki Carter He's a handsome feller!!!
Like · Reply · 1 · Yesterday at 8:46am
Mitchell Woods good lookin bull mr dennis. how is cinnabar.........
Like · Reply · 1 · Yesterday at 8:53am
Mark Morris Dennis, this will be the sire of all my 2016 calves.
Mark Morris's photo.
Like · Reply · 4 · Yesterday at 9:42am
Lesa Kinnamon Reid What's up with your change in breeding strategy, Mark Morris and Dennis Salyers? Just interested in what your new goals are since you aren't breeding purebreds any more.
Like · Reply · 3 · 23 hours ago
Hide 12 Replies
Mark Morris Lesa Kinnamon Reid I thought they would be an interesting change. I don't show and I am becoming weary of all the testing. Cattle are a hobby so I want it to be fun not a hassle. I gave some real nice cows who are not a2a2 so it makes their calves hard to sell. I am keeping my dexter bull so I can always go back.
Like · 1 · 19 hours ago
Lesa Kinnamon Reid Ah. I see. So how will you market your white crosses that are not white but are also not Dexters? Just wondering how all this works. I really appreciate your taking the time to answer me!
Like · 1 · 19 hours ago
Mark Morris I sell most of my dexters as meat. So anything left of the whites will go as meat. Just a fun thing to try out. Like I said its just a hobby.
Like · 19 hours ago
Mark Morris I am keeping a few dexter hfs back and I still have my dexter bull so will have more pure dexters
Like · 19 hours ago
Lesa Kinnamon Reid Cool. Thanks!
Like · 1 · 19 hours ago
Rhonda Rice I kind of see your point Mark Morris..it's almost like the Dexters are worthless without A2A2 status..very discouraging.
Like · 1 · 18 hours ago
Lesa Kinnamon Reid I sell A1A1 girls and A1A2 girls just fine. If people like the heifer/cow . . . their conformation, their temperament, the fact that they are genotyped and parent verified . . . then they buy them.
Like · 3 · 16 hours ago
Rhonda Rice That's good, Lesa Kinnamon Reid
Like · 1 · 16 hours ago
Judy Sponaugle The White park lines were developed to purebred. The polled bull imported to America is not. Opportunism overtook common sense and The Dexter breed in America has all but been gutted Tragedy.
Like · 2 · 2 hours ago
Judy Sponaugle The whites ARE as much.Dexter as polled. The denial is amazing
Like · 2 · 2 hours ago
Dennis Salyers Judy I made the comment to my wife that this bull is more of a true purebred than Cinnabar
Like · 1 · 2 hours ago
Judy Sponaugle Dennis, did I see someone comment that "white is not Dexter"? And polled is? NO! It is not. It is coming from a polled cow who had TWO horned parents. We call that outcrossing where I come from. So does everybody else except polled breeders in the US. They call it immaculate conception
Like · 1 · 26 minutes ago
Judy Sponaugle
Lora Jamison Oh he's a beauty Dennis
Like · Reply · 1 · 22 hours ago
Michael Floyd Did Cinnabar agree with this?
Like · Reply · 1 · 21 hours ago
Debra Hawkins love his head
Like · Reply · 1 · 21 hours ago
Maple View Farm Omg he's gorgeous!!
Like · Reply · 1 · 20 hours ago
Maple View Farm British white park?
Like · Reply · 20 hours ago
Chris Ricard I find it interesting that the person that is breeding these, Was an ADCA director for many years and was an advocate of not cross breeding dexters and keeping them "pure". Oh the irony !!!
Like · Reply · 2 · 19 hours ago
Tinia Creamer I am so excited about this bull. seriously. Cannot express it!!!
Like · Reply · 2 · 13 hours ago · Edited
Michelle McMullen Salyers
Michelle McMullen Salyers's photo.
Like · Reply · 4 · 13 hours ago
Tinia Creamer Oh my!!!
Like · Reply · 2 · 12 hours ago
Dennis Salyers I'm excited as well . Yes Lesa Kinnamon Reid i am going a different. i still own about forty head of registered adca Dexters but i have to do what i think makes the best sence for my farm. i love the dexter breed however the constant bickering amo...See More
Like · Reply · 2 · 12 hours ago
Michelle McMullen Salyers
Michelle McMullen Salyers's photo.
Like · Reply · 1 · 12 hours ago
Tinia Creamer replied · 1 Reply
Michelle McMullen Salyers
Michelle McMullen Salyers's photo.
Like · Reply · 1 · 12 hours ago
Cath N Rob Speirs I like!!
Like · Reply · 1 · 11 hours ago
Debbie Green Adkins Big man on campus!
Like · Reply · 1 · 5 hours ago
Neomia White Good luck !!
Like · Reply · 1 · 2 hours ago
Judy Sponaugle Chris Ricard didn't you just buy a bull off Sultan? Didn't you have a fit a few years ago when ADCA admitted him to the registry and he did not qualify according to their rules but ADCA said they could not remove him even though Chuck entered him in error? Irony everywhere
Like · Reply · 31 minutes ago · Edited
Judy Sponaugle Dennis. The sad truth is that ADCA has set legal precedent by admitting animals to the American herdbook that did not meet the original breed descriptions. The color dun was added in the sixties in England polled in the 90s the upgrade program permitted EVERY breed including white park to advance to Purebred so I do not believe the breed can win a legal fight against white when and if it is pursued.
Like · Reply · 29 minutes ago · Edited
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Post by jamshundred on May 4, 2015 15:02:26 GMT
Mark Morris' new White Dexter bull  |
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Post by jamshundred on May 4, 2015 15:05:26 GMT
Dennis Salyers new White Dexter bull  |
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Post by otf on May 4, 2015 15:05:56 GMT
That is not a Dexter.
Gale
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Post by jamshundred on May 4, 2015 15:19:51 GMT
Gale,
LOL! Gale, there is a sad truth to these "white Dexters". The development of the White Dexters is EXACTLY the same upgrading program that took place in the "other" Dexters. You take a breed, in this case it was White Park Cattle, you cross with a Dexter and then I am told the second breed back was to a Dexter bull, the third to a Dexter bull, and then. . . . . . .according to ALL cattle standards today. . . . . that result is a PUREBRED.
Look at the list of appendix animals in England on my website. They bred everything but the sun to a Dexter and took it through the same upgrade process. They DID eliminate the animals ( supposedly) that carried forth color in the phenotype, but the truth is. . .. . they could NOT remove those genes from the genotype. . . . . so that is why we have the colorful animals in the US herdbook that are black with significant white markings and red with significant white markings. It crops up when two animals carrying the genes are bred together.
In the case of the White Dexters, they wanted the white color and the black markings to stay.
Gale, if the "White Dexters" wish to be entered into the regular Dexter herd books, and they were bred to purebred status the same as the other "purebred" imported bulls from England since 1985. . . . . how can they legally be challenged? The original breed standard was for RED and BLACK with white only on the udder and to the navel, right? Then they changed the standard and permitted dun in the 1960's. Then they permitted a horned breed to have polled and look in the ADCA photos! Do you see those animals registered with BLACK faces, light colored muzzles, white markings on the foreheads, white legs, significant white markings on the torso?
GALE ! ! ! Once you open the gate. . . . ANYTHING can get into the pasture. That is called "legal precedent" and it rarely loses in a court of law. How can you tell white with black nose/ears they cannot come in when you have let in red/black faces-nose.
Lack of leadership and foresight. Over and over and over.
Judy
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Post by lakeportfarms on May 4, 2015 15:40:30 GMT
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Post by lonecowhand on May 4, 2015 17:21:02 GMT
Meaning polled to start with?
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Post by lakeportfarms on May 4, 2015 18:12:11 GMT
Yes, polled to start with. They look pretty much the same, and if horns are as much of a bother as so many claim, then I would think the popularity of a British White/Dexter would be greater than that of a White Park/Dexter. Or were the White Park used because there are other less noticeable traits that make it more compatible with the Dexter breed?
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Post by cascade on May 4, 2015 19:14:50 GMT
The ONLY thing that keeps Dexters looking and acting like Dexters, is selecting animals according to a Dexter breed standard.
Give me 30 legacy dexters , and I could come back in 20 years with some shockingly non-dexter looking and behaving parentage verified LEGACY dexters.
You'd be STUNNED by the hidden genes that are lurking in the purest of "pure" legacy dexters. If one was to breed FOR those hidden traits, instead of culling those hidden traits, you'd likely get some very white, very large, mean legacy dexters.
My point is that the breed standard is critical, and we all need to be selecting our stock each generation to fit the BREED STANDARD and to correct or cull the Dexters that don't meet the standard.
These WHITEDEXTERS in this thread are their own separate breed with their own breed standard. They have NOTHING to do with the Dexter Breed.
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Post by lakeportfarms on May 4, 2015 19:57:38 GMT
Kirk, the problem is that few breeders today cull those that don't meet the breed guideline. It's far more critical for those who are producing red polled Dexters than any other "type" at this point in time. You keep referring to Legacy Dexters in your posts. Those breeders who are working with them selected the Dexter BECAUSE of the listed traits, and do their best to adhere to them for that reason. All you have to do is spend a little time looking at some websites to see that there are way too many bulls being kept intact and sold for a lot of money at a young age, because they are polled, and/or A2/A2, and especially homozygous polled. Does this Dexter bull Mojo meet the breed guidelines? He's only 1-1/2 years old in this photo... He might be a nice looking bull and he'll produce a lot of beef, but looking at his size he's not going to help in reducing heights that the Dexter breed is known for. laffeysirishanimals.com/ourcows.php |
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Post by wvdexters on May 4, 2015 20:04:23 GMT
Yea Kirk
-But-
My point is that the breed standard is critical, and we all need to be selecting our stock each generation to fit the BREED STANDARD and to correct or cull the Dexters that don't meet the standard. Huh?
They just rewrite it!!!!!
Face it!!!! It is the honest truth!!!!!!!
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Post by wvdexters on May 4, 2015 20:06:55 GMT
Lakeport,
Don't forget they are lobbying to change that now too!! LOL
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Post by Donlin Stud on May 4, 2015 21:44:23 GMT
Howdy
Probably lovely looking animals in their own right but being in a country that allows grade-ups they are still very ugly looking "Dexters".
Wow and ADCA wouldn't - surely not!
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Post by cascade on May 4, 2015 23:42:15 GMT
Yea Kirk
-But-
My point is that the breed standard is critical, and we all need to be selecting our stock each generation to fit the BREED STANDARD and to correct or cull the Dexters that don't meet the standard. Huh?
They just rewrite it!!!!!
Face it!!!! It is the honest truth!!!!!!! The original breed standard said all dexters should essentially be Woodmagic-type (100% shorter legs and no longer legs)..... It said nothing about allowing chondro nor allowing a mix of long legs and short legs. It says that Duns are NOT ALLOWED. It also didn't say anything at all about removing horns. So are you supporting getting rid of duns, getting rid of chondro, and getting rid of dexters with longer legs?  |
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Post by cascade on May 5, 2015 0:29:38 GMT
Kirk, the problem is that few breeders today cull those that don't meet the breed guideline. All you have to do is spend a little time looking at some websites to see that there are way too many bulls being kept intact and sold for a lot of money at a young age, because they are polled, and/or A2/A2, and especially homozygous polled. Does this Dexter bull xxxx meet the breed guidelines? He's only 1-1/2 years old in this photo... He might be a nice looking bull and he'll produce a lot of beef, but looking at his size he's not going to help in reducing heights that the Dexter breed is known for. The good news is that most of those red polled lines are pretty high quality animals, so even if the bulls aren't perfect, they have some excellent parentage and excellent genetics behind them. I'd rather breed out of a less than perfect-looking bull that has terrific parentage, than breed out of a great looking bull with lots of mediocre parents, grandparents and great grandparents. The homo-polled A2/A2 bulls will soon hit a saturation point, and then there will be more critical selection, so whatever you're seeing will be short lived and only the very best will go forward. The bull you mention will likely fit the UK breed standard of 48 inches, but may be bigger than the US breed standard of 44 inches at age 3. But bulls under 38 inches at age 3+ don't fit either standard. The bull you mention is selected for fast maturity and vigorous growth.... That's a VERY good thing if he will also top out at a reasonable compact height at age 3. A danger with breeding Dexters, is that in selecting for small animals, you might accidentally be selecting for slow-growing, weak animals, with a bunch of problems. Lot's of genetic and nutritional problems can cause animals to be small. Striking a balance of fast growth and quick maturity, along with compact size is VERY VERY tricky. You should cull the slow-growing ones, and be excited about the fast growers.... but cross your fingers and hope they stop growing before they get too big. Breeding fast-growing vigorous compact dexters is a HUGE challenge. |
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Post by jamshundred on May 5, 2015 2:00:17 GMT
Kirk, I grew up hearing: " You cannot make a silk coat out of a sow's ear". Dexter breeders have repeated commented that "White Dexters" are NOT Dexters. And the polled cattle are even LESS so. You may repeat, repeat, repeat, list, list, list. . . . . . you cannot turn the sow's ear into a silk coat. The ORIGINAL description of the Dexter breed described DWARF cattle from the tip of the nose to the hock. YOU nor anyone else can change that. Back to the standard, and color, and polled.  Need to get this guy some white ears! Judy |
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Post by cascade on May 5, 2015 5:06:46 GMT
Kirk, The ORIGINAL description of the Dexter breed described DWARF cattle from the tip of the nose to the hock. YOU nor anyone else can change that. Judy It says ALL dexters must have short legs.... it says NOTHING about 50% short legs and 50% long legs.... it says NOTHING about dead bulldog calves.... So obviously the original description was meant to exclude chondro-dwarfs. It is obviously describing true-short dexters since 100% of them have short legs...yay! |
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Post by lonecowhand on May 6, 2015 21:05:23 GMT
Do you see anything on there that says they must be derived from Polled Angus?
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Post by cascade on May 7, 2015 4:53:29 GMT
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Post by lonecowhand on May 7, 2015 16:26:41 GMT
Are Legacy Dexters polled like yours? Do they have Platinum (or Lucifer) linebred in them several times in their recent lineage?
Legacy are Horned, purebred Dexters without the "benefit" of outcrossing to other breeds in their pedigree. As close to the original Dexter breed as is possible in this century.
They are only still around because some people have seen them as unique and worthy of continued breeding, intact and unsullied by outcrossing. Even you must see the value, you want the name of Dexter so badly. Just breed purebred Dexters and you'll have it. Problem solved.
I really see that as the only rift between all these breeders, they all want the Name and the reputation that goes with it, if everyone can agree on what to call all these crosses, it will benefit them and the Breed, as potential breeders will know what they are buying or breeding.
Bill
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